Celtic Wal/ Gal

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Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

Postby Boreades » 10:00 pm

The Ethnonym section of the Wikipedia page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkirs
has a variety of weird and wonderful explanations for their name. Like "wolf" and "beekeepers".

The one explanation that might have traction from a TME point of view is

The historian and archaeologist Mikhail Artamonov has identified the Scythian tribe Bušxk' (or Bwsxk) with the ethnonym of modern Bashkirs.

That's because there's a connection between the Scythians and the Galatians. If true, the Scythians are French Celts that migrated first to Galatia, and then a bit further to Scythia. That would make the Bashkirs "third-generation" French Celts.
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Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

Postby TisILeclerc » 8:23 pm

We are still being told, despite genetic evidence to the contrary, that the English invaded Britain, slaughtered the natives and took the country over for themselves.

An American called Brad Larkin looks as though he will be upsetting the apple cart as he researches Irish dna and tries to match the various groups up to the various people who entered Ireland in the past and according to the Irish Annals.

Unlike Haplogroups G and I, Haplogroup R went on a much longer journey and got to Europe and Ireland much later in time.
• R-L21 arrival in Ireland estimated as 2,000 bc based on R1b SNP variations across geographies.

Taken from DNA vs the Irish Annals, Brad Larkin . Here's the youtube version


The point he is making is that the 'Celtic' dna so called Rb or L21 only came to Europe and Ireland a couple of thousand years BC.

Could Tuatha Dé Danann be early Haplogroup I-M223 hunter-gatherers?

Could Fir Bolg be neolithic farmers with G2a Y-DNA?

Does Milesean invasion correspond with late arriving, metal-working, warrior culture of Celts with R-L21 Y-DNA?

Nothing conclusive, but a case can be made that modern DNA has some consistency with Irish origin stories such as the Lebor Gabála Érenn.

There were two main groups in Ireland thousands of years before that. Group G and Group 'I'. Group 'G' is only about two percent and 'I' about twelve percent.

Ignoring group 'G' which he thinks came in with the farmers it is worthwhile pointing out that group 'I' is recognised as the only European dna. It arose in Europe at some point after the ice age and is concentrated in the Germanic areas. Mainly Norway and north Germany. It spreads out from this area and gets smaller as it spreads.

If this dna group is connected with Germanic languages and culture this means that there were Germanic speakers in Ireland before the 'Celts' arrived. The same goes for the rest of Britain. In fact now we know the extent of Doggerland it makes sense to picture a common culture spreading from what is now Europe across to Britain and Ireland.

The Time Team video of Doggerland even shows two examples of fish spears which are identical. One found off the coast of Denmark the other off the coast of England leading Tony Robinson to exclaim that there must have been a common culture.



And somebody has conveniently put a video on youtube to show the extent of the 'I' groups since the ice age. Before and after. Complete with annoying music.


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Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

Postby hvered » 7:14 am

The DNA groupings seem to be growing apace, when unforeseen or inconvenient data show up they add a new group as per the Periodic Table (q.v.).

Two fish spears do not a culture make.
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Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

Postby Boreades » 9:25 pm

A year ago:

Boreades wrote:Ginger alert!

In previous posts, I was wondering why there are anomalous hotspots of Haplogroup R1b in Russia and Central Africa


I've just found that the Russian hotspot is one group of people, the Bashkirs, and they speak their own language.


The Central African hotspot remains unclear, but it seems to correlate with the Kanem–Bornu Empire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanem%E2% ... rnu_Empire

A year later (some news travels slowly) , The Scotsman newspaper has wondered the same thing. The Upper Volga, especially around Perm, is the new hotspot.

Dodds found that, along with Scotland, Russia was another big redhead “hotspot” with a concentration of those with ginger hair living in the Upper Volga area. After discovering one of the main cities was called Perm and that it sat roughly on the same line of latitude of Inverness, Dodds set to work.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/redheads-i ... -1-4548900
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Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

Postby TisILeclerc » 11:14 am

There is an idea that most European languages stem from English. English was the language of these islands and went on to civilise Europe by spreading the English tongue.

George Mackay in the mid nineteenth century had a similar idea. Except that he thought English was actually Gaelic.

In fact he wrote a book about it. 'The Gaelic etymology of the languages of Europe, etc.'

He was ridiculed for it of course but he outlines his theory in a long and comprehensive introduction in which he takes Gildas (all four of them), Johnson and others to task.

First, that the Gaelic and other divisions of the Keltic, so despised by Johnson and the succeeding writers whom his false teaching led astray, prevails to a very large extent in the unliterary and colloquial speech of the English people, and that it continually crops up in apparently new, but in reality very ancient slang, or, as they are some-times called, cant words.

Second, that the Gaelic underlies all the languages of the
Western, and some parts of North- Western Europe, especially French,
Spanish, and Italian.

Third, that what is called Anglo-Saxon, should be designated
Kelto-Saxon, and that the word Angle, is a corruption of An Gael, or,
" the Gael."

Fourth, that the " Low Latin " of the Middle Ages, especially that
form of it which is used in law books, is composed of Keltic or Gaelic
words with Latin terminations.

https://archive.org/details/gaelicetymo ... ft/page/n3

In the main section he goes into detail with a dictionary of words, meanings and derivations in English and Gaelic with a bit of French, Greek and Latin thrown into the mix.

Well worth a read on a dark and windy winter's night.
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Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

Postby Mick Harper » 11:35 am

It is not much, i.e. never, discussed when exactly the basic paradigm of the origin of British languages took its modern form. I still don't know for instance -- does anyone else? It is clear from this that it was already full-formed in Johnson's time. In other words at a time when nobody knew the first thing about palaeo-linguistics. Yes, that's right, it's yet another example of the pioneers getting it right first time out of the blocks by lucky accident. Or another example of how a paradigm, once formed, can never be got rid of.

If you really want to get to sleep of a winter's night you could try La Vrai Langue Celtique by Henri Boudet, which barks up the same tree but is probably even more barking.
Mick Harper
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