Scilly Isles and Cornwall

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Re: Scilly Isles and Cornwall

Postby Jools » 2:17 pm

Gaunt is a play on words, as in "tall, thin man" referring to a menhir and it's not so far removed from giant either. Gaunt was enormously wealthy (his Savoy Palace was the epitome of opulence just as the Savoy Hotel is today) and giants are associated with treasure as has already been said.

Carn Brea Castle is said to have been built on top of an earlier chapel dedicated to St Michael. He's often found on high places, somewhat overshadowed in this instance by St Agnes' Beacon, Carn Brea's sister hill, which can be seen out at sea and is described as "the most prominent feature" of the coastline.
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Re: Scilly Isles and Cornwall

Postby Jacqui » 8:13 am

Jools wrote:Carn Brea Castle is said to have been built on top of an earlier chapel dedicated to St Michael. He's often found on high places, somewhat overshadowed in this instance by St Agnes' Beacon, Carn Brea's sister hill, which can be seen out at sea and is described as "the most prominent feature" of the coastline.

The Carn Brea chapel is the most prominent feature in the area and seems to have been specifically constructed to aid travellers

In the 13th century a tiny hermitage chapel of St.Michael of Brea was built on the summit cairn, which subsequently deteriorated and was demolished in 1816. In its heyday it was tended by a succession of hermits who kept a beacon burning for travellers and ships. One of these was the legendary Harry the Hermit, who was supposed to 'raise storms' against fishermen who refused his demands for tithes.

Whoever kept the beacon alight had a lonely existence but had company of sorts: There are a line of barrows all along the coastal strip from St.Just to Lands End, many of which seem to be deliberately aligned to the hill of Chapel Carn Brea.

Clearly the Carn Brea chapel occupied an earlier important site. The St Michael reference is a reminder that Carn Brea is on the St Michael Line. This is ignored by orthodox historians, who fall back on 'ritual' and describe the cairn as "the dwelling place of the ancestors of the tribe" (without any evidence)

The Summit Cairn on Chapel Carn Brea was a distinctive feature, which would have required a huge amount of labour and resources to construct. Although it contained the deposition of pot sherds with cremated bone, the structure clearly is more elaborate (the original entrance grave having been built on with a large mound) than it needs to be from a purely practical purpose. It is thought of nowadays as being a 'cultural statement', a visible
cultural presence in the landscape, and a significant ceremonial monument that was visible from many of the other surrounding sites in the area
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Re: Scilly Isles and Cornwall

Postby Jools » 10:57 pm

Jacqui wrote:Clearly the Carn Brea chapel occupied an earlier important site. The St Michael reference is a reminder that Carn Brea is on the St Michael Line. This is ignored by orthodox historians, who fall back on 'ritual' and describe the cairn as "the dwelling place of the ancestors of the tribe" (without any evidence)

Yes but remember, ritual is there to commemorate or celebrate. The earlier structure seems to have been built as an observation post, presumably to see as well as be seen, before being re-built as a chapel. Ritual overlaying practicality when the original function is no longer relevant is not uncommon.

Cairns are also markers, not only on mountain tops but on level ground. Interestingly, the Irish burial custom of placing individual stones onto a grave is also a Jewish burial rite. Hermes/ Michael is the escort or psychopomp, who accompanies souls into the underworld, so claiming that cairns are 'for ritual purposes' is an understandable fallacy.
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Re: Scilly Isles and Cornwall

Postby Jacqui » 4:07 pm

Stuart wrote:Church Cove offers a safe haven to passing ships. Not the first place you'd expect to find a church but it's lasted...

A small stream runs through the middle of the sandy beach at Church Cove. This may have been used for tin streaming but at any rate the resemblance between churches and engine houses is quite striking, cf. Wheal Coates, Chapel Porth, St Agnes (which used to be an island)

These 'wheals' or mine-walls dominating cliffs and islands may be why Cornwall is associated with castles, even castles 'in the air'.
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Re: Scilly Isles and Cornwall

Postby Jacqui » 4:10 pm

hvered wrote: There's a St Agnes in the Scilly Isles which also has a 'bolster' joining St Agnes to the island of Gugh. Dunno if it's a man-made earthwork (any tales of giants welcomed)

Giant Bolster could plant one foot on Carn Brea and the other on the cliffs outside St Agnes which means he measured about twelve miles, a day's journey for a drover.
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Re: Scilly Isles and Cornwall

Postby Jools » 3:45 pm

Jacqui wrote: These 'wheals' or mine-walls dominating cliffs and islands may be why Cornwall is associated with castles, even castles 'in the air'.


Wheal
Old English weall "rampart" (natural as well as man-made), also "defensive fortification around a city, side of a building, interior partition," an Anglo-Frisian and Saxon borrowing (cf. Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Middle Low German, Middle Dutch wal) from Latin vallum "wall, rampart, row or line of stakes," apparently a collective form of vallus "stake." Swedish vall, Danish val are from Low German.

So wheal = wall and is clearly NOT 'from Latin'. The dictionary definition of weal is 'a ridge raised on flesh', but it is also part of 'wealth' and well(being) so it looks as if a mine-wall, with all the connotations of mineral wealth, at some point became a rather unpleasant medical term. Cf. mump, a mound or hump as in Burrowbridge Mump, and mumps.
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Re: Scilly Isles and Cornwall

Postby Boreades » 6:25 pm

Jools wrote:
Jacqui wrote: These 'wheals' or mine-walls dominating cliffs and islands may be why Cornwall is associated with castles, even castles 'in the air'.


Wheal
Old English weall "rampart" (natural as well as man-made), also "defensive fortification around a city, side of a building, interior partition," an Anglo-Frisian and Saxon borrowing (cf. Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Middle Low German, Middle Dutch wal) from Latin vallum "wall, rampart, row or line of stakes," apparently a collective form of vallus "stake." Swedish vall, Danish val are from Low German.

So wheal = wall and is clearly NOT 'from Latin'. The dictionary definition of weal is 'a ridge raised on flesh', but it is also part of 'wealth' and well(being) so it looks as if a mine-wall, with all the connotations of mineral wealth, at some point became a rather unpleasant medical term. Cf. mump, a mound or hump as in Burrowbridge Mump, and mumps.


As the Wheals are mostly in Cornwall, I suspect the dictionary waffle about Old Saxon is a lot of Old Bollocks.
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Re: Scilly Isles and Cornwall

Postby hvered » 9:39 am

St Agnes Beacon hove back into view recently as it's directly east of St Erme, a village on the Michael Line whose parish church is dedicated to St Hermes (a Christian martyr supposedly beheaded in Rome but no longer considered a 'real' saint).

Image

East from St Erme, the line continues to Porthpean, just south of St Austell, and a sheltered east-facing cove called Carnjewey which has an apparently natural rock arch. Coincidence or not but it seems a very useful shortcut to avoid sailing all round Land's End and back up again to, say, Falmouth or Fowey or even the Erme estuary, so will earmark it for 'further investigation'.
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Re: Scilly Isles and Cornwall

Postby Boreades » 9:49 pm

I'm wondering if TME has addressed the strange anomaly of many (something)Bury place names in Cornwall?

It's an anomaly because we're told Bury is a Saxon name, but the Saxons didn't do Cornwall.

Or what?
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Re: Scilly Isles and Cornwall

Postby Boreades » 10:45 am

The Saxons had a stronghold in northeastern Cornwall, which is reflected in many of the place names (-stow, -bury, -ton, -worthy, -cott, -ham, -ford etc). As you move further west, the Celtic place names (Tre-, Pen-, Lan-) become more common.

According to
http://www.iwalkcornwall.co.uk/walk/warbstow_bury

Seems strange that they came so close but stopped there.
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