Jack and the Beanstalk

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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 6:07 am

An early version of Morris dancing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salii

Note the leaping. Mars=Morris
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby macausland » 8:37 am

Spiral

I like the bit about King Morrius of Veii. Perhaps it should be Morrius dancing instead?
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby hvered » 9:19 am

The ceremony was already seen as archaic by the Romans. Interesting about the fall guy or 'scapegoat' and the ritual beating of sticks to get the season going. It reminds me of some of the so-called Easter ceremonies involving a dead cat, hare or boot or whatever, bit like a drag hunt.

The twelve shields or ancilia suggest the whole hunting re-enactment had been taken over by the priesthood. Would they have been drums originally, beaters making a lot of noise as they move closer together?

The sacrifice being quartered suggests a 'blessing of the foundation stone' or altar, Romans being very keen on founding places. Ancile seems to be an omphalos but it doesn't half sound like ankh which Wiki also notes:

Ancient sources give varying etymologies for the word ancile. Some derive it from the Greek ankylos (ἀγκύλος), "crooked". Plutarch thinks the word may be derived from the Greek ankōn (ἀγκών), "elbow", the weapon being carried on the elbow. Varro derives it ab ancisu, as being cut or arched on the two sides, like the bucklers of the Thracians called peltae.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby macausland » 12:16 pm

Hunters chasing their prey across hillside and moor were probably very well organised regarding tools and weaponry more than we imagine.

A very old longbow was found in the Scottish borders about twenty years ago. A reconstruction was made of it by a bowyer from Darlington. I think his name was Fred Bates but I may be wrong. He told me that it was very powerful.

Here's a link to an article about the find as well as a forum devoted to slings and stone throwing.

http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/searc ... S&id=71910

http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1260271797

Youtube has a couple of informative videos on slings. One shows how to make a simple one out of string. The process is very suggestive of 'celtic' knotwork.

The other shows a Spanish slingshot champion taking on a challenge to determine whether the Biblical David could have killed Goliath with a single stone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APExNLO1oHY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELYea2UDfeY

I think the hunters were very sure of what they were doing and had their skills honed to perfection.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 4:33 pm

The patron saints of swordsmiths is St Maurice you might want to check out his image on the right hand of the wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Maurice
Maurice=Mars
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby hvered » 4:49 pm

spiral wrote:The patron saints of swordsmiths is St Maurice you might want to check out his image on the right hand of the wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Maurice
Maurice=Mars

Image
Swordsmiths, eh? Aka metal working magicians. Any which way, he looks pretty Moorish.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 5:09 pm

hvered wrote:Swordsmiths, eh? Aka metal working magicians.


Exactly, metal working on the moors.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby macausland » 7:17 pm

On the other hand in the West Country they pray to St Clement

http://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/clements_day.htm

or St Dunstan

http://theforgery.ca/?tag=patron-saint-of-blacksmiths

Although a religious site doesn't seem to recognise Clement or Maurice but does include St Brigid of Ireland

http://saints.sqpn.com/patrons-of-blacksmiths/
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 7:36 am

macausland wrote:in the West Country they pray to St Clement


Weather.

macausland wrote:or St Dunstan


Horse.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 8:09 am

Giants tend to be dumb but, according to mine working folklore, their giants are still smarter than the giants of the locals that work the land, who are even dumber....
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