Jack and the Beanstalk

[Boreades]

Mr & Mrs Wiki say that:
"Taillefer (Latin: Incisor ferri, meaning "hewer of iron") was the surname of a Norman ioglere (translated as Juggler),[1] whose exact name and place of birth are unknown (sometimes his first name is given as "Ivo"). He travelled to England during the Norman conquest of England of 1066, in the train of William the Conqueror. At the Battle of Hastings, Taillefer recited the Chanson de Roland to the Norman troops while juggling with his sword. An English soldier ran out to challenge him and was killed by Taillefer, who then charged the English lines and was engulfed. Strangely, Taillefer is not depicted, by name at least, on the Bayeux Tapestry."

Not much room on the Norman propaganda then (it would seem) for a Kamikaze Juggler?

[hvered]

Nope, a shaman signals the direction at a time of crisis.

A herald is naturally at the forefront.

One of the most mystical of military myths is the one in which a cross appears in the sky. In other cases it would be an angel or a man on a white horse.

In films which probably take their cue from historical re-enactments the eye is first drawn to the armies' banners, whose motifs are heraldric.

[The St George's Cross was apparently the flag of Genoa and used by English ships trading in the Med to avoid being flagged down and charged Genoese tolls, for which privilege the English king paid an annual tribute].

Walter Raleigh/Francis Drake were playing Bowls......(Jacks) as the Armada approached.

I'd forgotten that! That's very good.

[hvered]

Not much room on the Norman propaganda then (it would seem) for a Kamikaze Juggler?

Can anyone make head or tail of Harold's saga? I didn't know that his wife, Edith, was Edward the Confessor's Queen Edith of Wessex. Harold's daughter was also Edith of Wessex and his concubine was Edith Swan-neck.

It's almost as bad as differentiating Roman emperors' wives, mothers and sisters. Or the Biblical Mary for that matter.

[Donna]

It's almost as bad as differentiating Roman emperors' wives, mothers and sisters. Or the Biblical Mary for that matter.

I've long been sceptical about the instances of incest practised by Roman emperors. In a patriarchal system women are relatively insignificant players, wives, mothers and sisters are bound to be confused.

In the patriarchal NT Mary the mother and Mary the concubine are obviously the same, a throw-back to moon-goddess/ earth mother stereotypes.

[spiral]

Can anyone make head or tail of Harold's saga? I didn't know that his wife, Edith, was Edward the Confessor's Queen Edith of Wessex. Harold's daughter was also Edith of Wessex and his concubine was Edith Swan-neck.

Orthodoxy says Edith.... a female given name: from Old English words meaning “rich, happy” and “war.”

So apparently lots of girls were called "Happy war" .

Bloodthirsty times. Eh?

Makes me wonder, what happened if pater was on the losing side, did he name his daughter "Bit of bummer, ended up a homeless refugee, conflict".....

Harold=Herald=war commander etc.

[spiral]

Can anyone make head or tail of Harold's saga? I didn't know that his wife, Edith, was Edward the Confessor's Queen Edith of Wessex. Harold's daughter was also Edith of Wessex and his concubine was Edith Swan-neck.

Its exactly that, a mixture of oral saga bundled as orthodox history. Harold redivivus, is no different to Nero redivivus, only Historians keep peddling it.

The last incarnation was Herewald the wake, who used to be regarded as legend, but No!

Orthodoxy has now found the real Herewald and so you get "The news of the defeat of King Harold brought Hereward the Wake back to England." etc.

[hvered]

Its exactly that, a mixture of oral saga bundled as orthodox history. Harold redivivus, is no different to Nero redivivus, only Historians keep peddling it. The last incarnation was Herewald the wake, who used to be regarded as legend, but No!

Orthodoxy has now found the real Herewald and so you get "The news of the defeat of King Harold brought Hereward the Wake back to England." etc.

I wish I'd thought of Harold as a herald! He's rather a tragic herald, with his death the entire Anglo-Saxon nobility seems to have also died or been dispossessed. There's something quite biblical about the accounts of their last battle and of the Harrying of the North, perhaps as you say Anglo-Saxons were a bloodthirsty lot.

Is Herod a herald also? The slaughter of all the first-born sons has an epic feel. It harks back to the saga of Moses and the final plague that brought about the Exodus, which has a similarly sweeping quality. {John the Baptist is sometimes seen as the forerunner or herald of Jesus but John is the first-born, and is of course the first to die}.

[Boreades]

I wish I'd thought of Harold as a herald! He's rather a tragic herald, with his death the entire Anglo-Saxon nobility seems to have also died or been dispossessed.

I'm sure Mick will have the answer for us. Something like, they were dispossessed as overlords of the English, only for the English to get a fresh set of Norman overlords.

I still blame Vortigern for the Saxons being here in the first place!

[Marko]

Knucklebones, or Jacks, is a game of very ancient origin, played with usually five small objects, originally the "knucklebones" (actually the astragalus: a bone in the ankle, or hock[1]) of a sheep, which are thrown up and caught in various ways.

The astragalus or ankle-bone also refers to milkvetch aka 'Loco weed', defined as a plant with vertebra-like knotted roots.

The beanstalk belongs to the same family as the astragalus by the sound of it:

A taxonomic genus within the family Fabaceae — the milk-vetches.

[Boreades]

How about Jack and Jill?