Jack and the Beanstalk

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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Boreades » 9:27 pm

I have been immersing myself in our new fountain of knowledge and finding gems all over the place (mangled metaphor is me). Here's what she has to say on Giants that throw stones.

http://lochearnhead.wikidot.com/chapter9

Giants and their Mother.

With the giants of prehistoric Scotland we move into a more tangible field of enquiry, for they lived in identifiable places. Typical are the four brothers of prodigious size who once lived on the west coast of Lewis. They dominated the whole island and kept the men of Lewis under subjection. Their names were Kuoch Mac Nuaran or Nuagaran (Cuithuich Mac Nuadharan) who lived at Dun Chuithaich on a small island at the Sands of Uig, Glom Mac Nuaran who lived at Ballyglom, in Great Berneray, Tidd Mac Nuaran who lived at Tidberry, also in Great Bernera, and Dearge Mac Nuaran who occupied the broch at Carloway. As we might expect, their names derive from beacon signals and hunting. G. cuithe can mean ‘trench, pit (deer trap)’, G. glom may be ‘rocky cleft (deer trap)’. G. dùd is ‘blast of a horn (signal)’, a beacon or signal word also found at Duddingston, Midlothian, below Arthur’s Seat, and in Sc. dod attached to certain hills in the south of Scotland, and G. dearg is ‘kindle, burn’. These four giants were personifications of the signal beacons which once controlled the rhythm of life in Lewis. In fact they all lived very close to one another and may be regarded as four manifestations of a single beacon, no doubt known as Nuadharan. (cf G. nuaudhulig ‘all-heal’, the mistletoe)

Giants were also widespread in Lowland Scotland where they lived in very visible sites such as hill forts or watch hills which afforded a wide view of the surrounding country. The giant of the Eildon hills was known as Wallace. The giant of Norman’s Law in Fife was known as the Devil (G. diabhol can be interpreted to mean ‘god of fire’, or ‘fire giant’). The stone that he flung when fighting with the giant of Law Hill, Dundee, was known as the ‘Deil Stane’. The giant of Ben Ledi, reputed to be the strongest, or most visible, of his kind in Scotland, was called Samson, and his putting stone was pointed out to visitors to Callander. One of the three giants in Inverness was known as Patrick, perhaps representing the same obscure word as Puderach, the standing stone in Balquhidder. The Red Etin had three heads which may represent beacons on Castle Hill, Arthur’s Seat and Calton Hill in Edinburgh. It has been suggested that the name ‘Arthur’ arrived there after Arthurian romances became popular at the Scottish court, D.A. Mackenzie 1935, 117. but Arthur may have been there first for he ‘controlled the armies of Britain’ and was himself a major hunting beacon. The male giants who divided up the Lowlands between them were preceded by a single female beacon. D.A. Mackenzie 1935, 139-40.

The story of giants or the devil or witches hurling stones great distances is widespread. Is this perhaps a misinterpretation of a phrase which meant, instead, that a beacon signal travelled a great distance? It might in that case have evolved out of the link between G. clach ‘stone’ and E. clock, clack, clap, and clapper. Du. klok ‘bell’ is also relevant. G. clachan ‘testicles’ are in evidence in Romanesque decoration. This reflects the fact that the ringing of bells replaced beacon signals. Ossian the deer-hunter complained that the bells of the priests disturbed him – in other words, the feudal calendar was at odds with the native calendar. However the etymological links suggest that the original bell or clock consisted of two stones knocked together to make a ringing noise. Cup and ring marks were made by repeatedly knocking a stone hammer on a fixed slab. Would this make a ringing noise on a frosty winter’s night? A field experiment appears to be call for here.


Wonderful stuff.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby hvered » 8:29 am

Giants are connected with megaliths for the obvious reason that moving or erecting huge stones requires a huge effort. The concept of a giant may be more abstract, a powerful force of nature or jinn/djinn perhaps. The giant in the beanstalk story seems to be somewhere in the sky.

Interesting about ringing stones, megalithic sites are often described as a ring of stones. The bell-ringers of Ottery St Mary in Devon are annually seized by pixies who hold them to ransom on May Day.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 4:49 pm

Giants are an explanation for megaliths. Giants always exist before us, or in far off places waiting to be discovered, whereas small people are still around us. Giants tend to be simple folk, easily outsmarted, whereas the small folk, play tricks.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby macausland » 7:39 pm

Spiral - giants

The standing stones at Callanaish were supposed to be giants turned into stone by a Christian saint.

They are supposed to turn back into men at certain times of the year and dance at night.

The 'Scotsman' newspaper has an article about them, 'Dancing with the moon goddess'

http://www.scotsman.com/news/dancing-wi ... h-1-466674

The dancing refers in this case to supposed druids or whatever rather than the stones themselves.

The article mistranslates the hill line where the moon appears: Cailleach na Mointeach - or Sleeping Beauty.

As we know Cailleach is old woman or 'hag'. Mointeach is peat or moss. Which seems to fit in more with the lochearnhead theory. By the way, poll monach means peat hag. So there are hags everywhere we look it would seem.

According to Dwelly http://www.dwelly.info/ Calanas or calanais refers to spinning or 'wool making in general'. So there's another animal connection.

There are hundreds of stone circles in the area. Some are only recently being discovered.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby macausland » 8:20 pm

Callanish is also known as Callanis I which seems to tie in with the idea that Iona or I referred to fire.

An interesting site give further information on Callanish and includes early references from antiquity.

In this case though it refers to astronomical alignments but includes references to 'the shining one' and cuckoo calls.

http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/scotlandcallanish.htm
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Donna » 11:56 pm

macausland wrote: The standing stones at Callanaish were supposed to be giants turned into stone by a Christian saint.

By St Kieran it seems, though Kieran or Ciaran is an incomer being Irish. Behindthename says the Cornish equivalent is Piran which sounds like a 'fire' name.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby macausland » 6:17 am

Donna

There's an interesting site regarding Kieran or Ciaran. He appears to have been a cattle herder at one point and on wikipedia there are references to his ability to control a variety of animals.

http://www.allsaintsbrookline.org/celti ... ieran.html

Wikipedia tells us that Ciaran of Saigir was a leather clad wild man. ' A tradition shared by all four Lives describes Ciarán as a wild man wearing skins, whose first pupils are animals in the forest.'

I can't find any references to him arriving in Lewis.

'Ciaran' means a dark or swarthy man. Dwelly has 'ciaran' combined with 'mabach' which can mean entangled, cofused, or 'furnished with tassels or fringes.'

Poacher turned gamekeeper perhaps?

On the other hand there appear to have been at least two Kierans who may or may not have been the same and who may or may not have been Piaran and may have been of noble birth or the son of a carpenter and chariot maker.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 6:31 am

Donna wrote:
macausland wrote:By St Kieran it seems, though Kieran or Ciaran is an incomer being Irish. Behindthename says the Cornish equivalent is Piran which sounds like a 'fire' name.


Yes Piran does equal pyre.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 6:35 am

macausland wrote:Spiral - giants

The standing stones at Callanaish were supposed to be giants turned into stone by a Christian saint.


Exactly.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 7:06 am

An exciting job prospect (Boro perhaps?)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/04 ... 21571.html
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