Re: Jack and the Beanstalk
Posted:
6:07 am
by spiral
An early version of Morris dancing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SaliiNote the leaping. Mars=Morris
Re: Jack and the Beanstalk
Posted:
8:37 am
by macausland
Spiral
I like the bit about King Morrius of Veii. Perhaps it should be Morrius dancing instead?
Re: Jack and the Beanstalk
Posted:
9:19 am
by hvered
The ceremony was already seen as archaic by the Romans. Interesting about the fall guy or 'scapegoat' and the ritual beating of sticks to get the season going. It reminds me of some of the so-called Easter ceremonies involving a dead cat, hare or boot or whatever, bit like a drag hunt.
The twelve shields or ancilia suggest the whole hunting re-enactment had been taken over by the priesthood. Would they have been drums originally, beaters making a lot of noise as they move closer together?
The sacrifice being quartered suggests a 'blessing of the foundation stone' or altar, Romans being very keen on founding places. Ancile seems to be an omphalos but it doesn't half sound like ankh which Wiki also notes:
Ancient sources give varying etymologies for the word ancile. Some derive it from the Greek ankylos (ἀγκύλος), "crooked". Plutarch thinks the word may be derived from the Greek ankōn (ἀγκών), "elbow", the weapon being carried on the elbow. Varro derives it ab ancisu, as being cut or arched on the two sides, like the bucklers of the Thracians called peltae.
Re: Jack and the Beanstalk
Posted:
12:16 pm
by macausland
Hunters chasing their prey across hillside and moor were probably very well organised regarding tools and weaponry more than we imagine.
A very old longbow was found in the Scottish borders about twenty years ago. A reconstruction was made of it by a bowyer from Darlington. I think his name was Fred Bates but I may be wrong. He told me that it was very powerful.
Here's a link to an article about the find as well as a forum devoted to slings and stone throwing.
http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/searc ... S&id=71910http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1260271797Youtube has a couple of informative videos on slings. One shows how to make a simple one out of string. The process is very suggestive of 'celtic' knotwork.
The other shows a Spanish slingshot champion taking on a challenge to determine whether the Biblical David could have killed Goliath with a single stone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APExNLO1oHYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELYea2UDfeYI think the hunters were very sure of what they were doing and had their skills honed to perfection.
Re: Jack and the Beanstalk
Posted:
4:33 pm
by spiral
The patron saints of swordsmiths is St Maurice you might want to check out his image on the right hand of the wiki page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_MauriceMaurice=Mars
Re: Jack and the Beanstalk
Posted:
4:49 pm
by hvered
Swordsmiths, eh? Aka metal working magicians. Any which way, he looks pretty Moorish.
Re: Jack and the Beanstalk
Posted:
5:09 pm
by spiral
hvered wrote:Swordsmiths, eh? Aka metal working magicians.
Exactly, metal working on the moors.
Re: Jack and the Beanstalk
Posted:
7:17 pm
by macausland
On the other hand in the West Country they pray to St Clement
http://www.legendarydartmoor.co.uk/clements_day.htmor St Dunstan
http://theforgery.ca/?tag=patron-saint-of-blacksmithsAlthough a religious site doesn't seem to recognise Clement or Maurice but does include St Brigid of Ireland
http://saints.sqpn.com/patrons-of-blacksmiths/
Re: Jack and the Beanstalk
Posted:
8:09 am
by spiral
Giants tend to be dumb but, according to mine working folklore, their giants are still smarter than the giants of the locals that work the land, who are even dumber....