Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

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Re: Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

Postby TisILeclerc » 12:29 pm

They dated the piece of iron through a mark the maker had stamped into it. Without going through the video again I couldn't tell you what the 'exact' date was.

They confirmed the maker's stamp by examining tools made in the period in a museum in the Basque country that deals in such stuff.

They then examined documents drawn up officially at the time describing what the Basque fishermen were doing, where they were doing it and how they did it. They state quite clearly that they were trading with the natives.

If you watch the video you will get more out of it than my half remembered ramblings.
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Re: Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

Postby Boreades » 2:37 pm

Mick Harper wrote: The Basque country by the way was still the main source of British iron ore in the twentieth century (AD).

Some mistake Shirley?

Iron ore used in the UK is imported, primarily from the USA, Canada, Brazil, Australia and Scandinavia.

And now Greenland as well. Probably China as well.

Whereas:

... during 33 years, 91% of the iron ore extracted in the Basque Country was sent to Britain in the boats, which on their incoming voyage, brought coal from Wales or Durham ... in the port of Cadiz, coal from Newcastle was cheaper than coal from Sama de Langreo in Asturias.

91% of exported doesn't mean 91% of imported.

Lost in translation?
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Re: Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

Postby Mick Harper » 8:40 pm

If you run the numbers for 'the twentieth century' I am sure you will get round to my way of thinking. However, if I may backtrack un peu, high grade stuff came from Sweden and a lot wasn't imported at all being from very low-grade domestic sources. This last perhaps points to why Spain no longer features (if your figures are correct for the 21st century). For reasons I do not really understand, iron ore is/was economical to tranship rather than refine in the country of origin. Spain was the nearest source but with the development of 200,000 ton ore carriers and super-open cast mines, presumably the Basque country can no longer compete. Nor can the orefields round Corby.
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Re: Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

Postby Boreades » 10:03 pm

No I won't. For reasons you do not really understand, you have confused import and export.

Edit: P.S. i've tried explaining this before.
e.g. why Cornish tin ore was smelted in Wales, not in Cornwall.
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Re: Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

Postby TisILeclerc » 7:48 pm

Another article today in the Daily Mail about Must Farm. Lots more photographs for your collection as well as videos. The importance of this site is enormous. Especially as it shows trade with the med and middle east.

Image


Image

Image

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... -Fens.html
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Re: Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

Postby Mick Harper » 8:41 pm

I entirely agree. One is baffled as to how orthodoxy (including the excavators of Must Farm I fear) continue in their belief in such a backward Britain.
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Re: Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

Postby TisILeclerc » 10:28 am

It would appear that Squirrel Nutkin is not feeling very well. He's got leprosy apparently and must go around ringing bells and things. So if you want to dine on squirrel stick to the grey variety, they're pests and abundant and they've only got squirrel pox which is not transferable to humans, I think.

But I was struck by the location which is on Brownsea island which looks very funny. Nearby there is a Green Island. So somebody likes their colours down there.

Image

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11 ... -as-peopl/

It appears to be well connected with the saintly crowd or perhaps hedging its bets with an original St Andrew with resident hermit in the ninth century.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownsea_Island

It certainly attracted the powers that be. Probably because of its strategic location.

The first records of inhabitants on Brownsea Island occurred in the 9th century, when a small chapel and hermitage were built by monks from Cerne Abbey near Dorchester. The chapel was dedicated to St Andrew and the only resident of the island was a hermit, who may have administered to the spiritual welfare of sailors passing through Poole Harbour. In 1015, Canute led a Viking raid to the harbour and used Brownsea as a base to sack Wareham and Cerne Abbey.[5] In the 11th century the owner of the island was Bruno, who was Lord of the Manor of Studland.[5] Following his invasion of England, William the Conqueror gave Studland, which included Brownsea to his half-brother, Robert de Mortain. In 1154, King Henry II granted the Abbot of Cerne the right of wreck for the island and the Abbey continued to control the interests of Brownsea for the next 350 year


The last thing anyone would want in a large harbour is a large foreign fleet moving in for the cheap booze. So a few islands built up in the shallow harbour would be very useful to disrupt them and offer protection if properly manned with kung fu hermits. Or saints. As well as Andrew there is Peter and George. Oh and a St Michael's Mount for good luck.

And here it is at the entrance to the harbour with the other islands in the background.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poole_Harbour

Poole harbour is also where they found an iron age dugout boat. It is 33 foot long and could hold eighteen people. Probably the local ferry.

Image

Having a number of islands in the harbour would increase the wharfage area and boats like this would be useful for transferring goods to and from the mainland.
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Re: Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

Postby Mick Harper » 11:13 am

Yes but why use the largest harbour in Europe to do all these things? And why do much the same thing on the same scale at Portsmouth Harbour, Langstone Harbour, Chichester Harbour and Pagham Harbour? Surely they didn't have that many boats? Though of course they would need that much salt.
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Re: Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

Postby TisILeclerc » 12:11 pm

We still have ports in the country. Not many now but they still exist.

But we have not ships to speak of. All sold off or scrapped.

But other people have ships and they sail to our remaining ports to sell us things. Because we don't make things.

I went across the Channel a few years ago and was amazed at the number of overloaded Chinese junks, sorry Chinese ships full of junk making their way to us and the poundshop.

Whatever they were trading in the iron age and before was of value to someone and traders always come to trade. We can see that from the Bronze Age gear found in Cambridgeshire, top quality stuff.

All you need is the port and the infrastructure to deal with what turns up. And the more the merrier. Aldi isn't the only Lidl in town.
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Re: Keeping your feet dry, 8,000BC

Postby Boreades » 12:40 pm

Be brave, mon ami!

We might not be the powerhouse we were when Britain 's Cornish/Welsh/Scottish/French engineers invented things and Britain sold them all round the world. But those ships from China (arriving with containers full of brown boxes) don't go back empty. The UK is still a world-leader in exporting rubbish. Millions of tonnes of paper, metals, etc are exported every year.

http://www.rwmexhibition.com/files/rwm_ ... 2014v3.pdf

https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable ... y-security

All thanks to people like you & Mick & Hattie carefully separating your rubbish into separate bins and putting it out for the local council. Even if it does end-up in landfill in China. (Sadly, Chateau Boreades is an exception, because of our own award-winning organic recycling schemes)

This still needs lots of ports.

More to the point: Once upon a time in TME we did touch on the evidence for v.large volumes of goods traded in and out of pre-Roman Britain. I will award a spot prize for whoever can remember the safe place we put it in.
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