Megalithic mapping

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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby hvered » 5:42 pm

In Celtic folklore 'fairy paths', ancient trackways and the like are associated with white flowers, possibly hawthorn blossom though often unspecified. It may be that 'lis' is referring to the lightness rather than type of flower. Lissewege is described as a 'white village'.
[There's also the French lycée, allegedly meaning a gymnasium or athletic training ground; appropriately enough the French Lycée in London is on the A4 also an east-west route crossing the width of the country]

Lissewege village is clearly a backwater, despite having a church that's far too large for its size, also a Megalithic trait. It also has a "unique collection of 124 antique statues of patron saints", indeed the museum of saints is itself apparently unique.

The Abbey of Ter Doest had a bishop called Thorfinn who was subsequently canonised. St Thorfinn was supposed to be from Hamar though little else is known of this saint so the name may be a play on 'Thor's Hammer'.
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby TisILeclerc » 5:55 pm

Looks like I was a bit hasty with the translation of 'lis'. The 'flag' reference is apparently another name for an iris. Of course somebody could have been stood waving a bunch of irises instead of a flag during the daytime.

As for the flower, it is apparently used in water purification. It is also the symbol for Brussels and is the origin of the fleur de lys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-G%C3%A9ry_Island

'Saint-Géry Island (French: île Saint-Géry, Dutch: About this sound Sint-Gorikseiland (help·info)) was the largest island in the Senne (Zenne) river in Brussels, Belgium. It was named after Saint Gaugericus of Cambrai, who built a chapel there ca. 580. Hence the name "Brussels", which comes from Bruocsella or Broekzele, meaning "settlement in the marsh".[1] It ceased to exist as an island when the Senne was covered over in the late 19th century.'

This island was apparently 'carpetted with irises'. 'The island was said to be once completely carpeted in irises. Due to the importance of the island, the iris has been the symbol of Brussels since the 19th century, and is now the sole feature on the flag of the Brussels-Capital Region.[2]'

Lilies can also be used for water purification removing heavy metals and dealing with sewage.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 21227.html

'Water lilies may prove to be a secret weapon in the fight against water pollution. Recent experiments have shown
water lilies to be capable of absorbing great quantities of heavy, poisonous metals through their leaves and roots. This could allow water lilies to be used both to restore the purity of rivers and water sources polluted with
poisonous heavy metals and as a means for treating waste water originating from household or industrial sources.'

Irises are also used in aromatherapy and were in use in ancient times for a variety of medicines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_%28plant%29

'Rhizomes of the German Iris (I. germanica) and Sweet Iris (I. pallida) are traded as orris root and are used in perfume and medicine, though more common in ancient times than today. Today Iris essential oil (absolute) from flowers are sometimes used in aromatherapy as sedative medicines. The dried rhizomes are also given whole to babies to help in teething. Gin brands such as Bombay Sapphire and Magellan Gin use orris root and sometimes iris flowers for flavor and color.

For orris root production, iris rhizomes are harvested, dried, and aged for up to 5 years. In this time, the fats and oils inside the roots undergo degradation and oxidation, which produces many fragrant compounds that are valuable in perfumery. The scent is said to be similar to violets. The aged rhizomes are steam-distilled which produces a thick oily compound, known in the perfume industry as "iris butter" or orris oil.'

It could well have been a good product to trade with.
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby Mick Harper » 1:32 am

A significant discovery that irises and lillies are connected via their properties re water purification. Since the Megalithics were heavily into metal mining it seems likely that they might be interested in treating the water their activities despoiled. However environmental pollution is a rather modern anxiety so a more intriguing possibility is that they used lillies and irises to concentrate metal. After all we suspect them of using salt marshes to concentrate salt. Does anyone know whether this is a technical possibility?
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby spiral » 7:54 am

hvered wrote:In Celtic folklore 'fairy paths', ancient trackways and the like are associated with white flowers, possibly hawthorn blossom though often unspecified. It may be that 'lis' is referring to the lightness rather than type of flower. Lissewege is described as a 'white village'.


Well, some folks think fairy paths are corpse roads are ley lines.

That would establish a folk lore for getting around........as well as getting lost eg maze, labyrinth........

The type of white/grey is important in folk lore eg silver, shimmering etc.
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby TisILeclerc » 1:52 pm

Mick Harper wrote:A significant discovery that irises and lillies are connected via their properties re water purification. Since the Megalithics were heavily into metal mining it seems likely that they might be interested in treating the water their activities despoiled. However environmental pollution is a rather modern anxiety so a more intriguing possibility is that they used lillies and irises to concentrate metal. After all we suspect them of using salt marshes to concentrate salt. Does anyone know whether this is a technical possibility?


Do you mean is it possible for plants to concentrate minerals? If so, the answer is yes.

Alan J. M. Baker et al have a paper devoted to 'metallophytes', plants that thrive in metal polluted landscapes.

http://www.researchgate.net/ profile/ Antony_Ent/ publication/ 258432650_Metallophytes_the_unique_biological_resource_its_ecology_an d_conservational_status_in_Europe_central_Africa_and_Latin_America/ links/ 0046352ad7de415af8000000.pdf - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight

This is a link to the pdf file. I've copied the lot, perhaps the final few words are not part of the link i.e. View by etc.

It appears from the article that all old metal mining sites attract plants that thrive in a metal rich soil. They seem to colonise these areas but are not well adapted to ordinary soils. It's well worth a read. There are even photos, one of which in Africa has a suspiciously artificial looking hill on the horizon in the far distance.

Can these plants be used to retrieve the minerals and metals? Yes they can.

http://www.nerdist.com/2014/03/phytomin ... ng-for-us/

There are several sites devoted to phytomining, the term used for using plants to extract the metals.

One such relates to gold. http://www.livescience.com/28676-plants-grow-gold.html

Mustard plants seem to be a plant of choice in many cases.

http://www.nerdist.com/2014/03/phytomin ... ng-for-us/

Wiki has an indepth article about phytoremediation which is more concerned with the reclaiming of polluted land with plants.

I imagine the next question would be 'what kind of plants exist at ancient mining sites?' Followed by were they put there deliberately? And of course 'did the ancient miners extract minerals from them as they did the glasswort family and others for potash etc?'

It may be instructive to survey ancient sites for distribution of plant species. Are they all native or have some been introduced in the past from other areas?

Regarding salt production this is quite an informative site dealing with salt production in the Seille Valley. It has a map showing salt production in ancient times including salt marshes in southern and eastern England, Holland, France etc.

http://www.seillevalley.com/History.htm



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytoremediation
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby Mick Harper » 2:27 pm

Absolutely astonishing. Is this a whole new area we have stumbled across (re The Ancients, I mean) or has someone else got there before us?
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby TisILeclerc » 3:13 pm

Here's an official site from the Peak District detailing metallophytes in the area.

It contains a list and which mine workings they live on but also shows a map of the distribution of two of these plants in Britain and Ireland. At first sight it seems apparent they are all on old mining sites.

http://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/__data/a ... apter3.pdf

It's not possible to cut and paste from the article as it's distributed over columns which all get picked up as well.

Suffice to say that regarding the Alpine penny-cress we are told that it is very difficult to reproduce as the seeds are heavy and only survive in the near vicinity. It is a nationally rare plant and only occupies a confined area in the Peak District. '... once lost from a site it is unlikely to return'

This is a very interesting site as apart from the subject of plants dependent on old mining sites it gives details of the plants that normally occupy these areas. I would suggest that if these are found in perhaps Cornwall or Wales, (the maps show they are) we have colonies of plants that do not survive elsewhere and which are easily destroyed with change of soil conditions etc. So, how did they get to these remote places in the first place?
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby hvered » 4:51 pm

If only a small group of plants can grow in mineral-rich soils, this would be as instructive to mineral prospectors as 'crop marks' are to archaeologists. It can be reasonably supposed that the plants already occupied their niches before mining took place rather than vice versa.

Conversely, water-purifying plants such as irises and water lilies are a signal the water here is safe to drink.
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby Boreades » 5:10 pm

hvered wrote:It can be reasonably supposed that the plants already occupied their niches before mining took place rather than vice versa.


Do First World War botanists say the same about poppies in Flanders Fields? i.e. those seeds were already there, dormant or unnoticed, but the make-up of the disturbed landscape suited those seeds above other species already there?

Conversely, water-purifying plants such as irises and water lilies are a signal the water here is safe to drink.

Err, are we sure about that? I know some folk who make a living out of planting reed beds to purify water from sewage works. I'd want to be very careful about which end of the water flow I was drinking from!
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby TisILeclerc » 6:29 pm

An American Government report in 1967 examined the possibility of prospecting for copper and other minerals by looking for areas where a variety of mosses including liverwort grew.

'Reports in the literature indicate that the mosses Merceya ligulata, M. latifolia, and the liverwort Gymnocolea acutiloba grow most commonly or perhaps exclusively on substrates that are enriched in metals. These reports and the analyses of this study support the belief that knowledge of the occurrence of Mielchhoferia species and some other copper mosses can be used in prospecting for metals - habitats of museum-held specimens can be tabulated and these localities then examined by means of conventional prospecting methods.'

'Reports in the literature indicate that species of the moss genus Merceya and the liverwort species Gymnocolea acutiloba commonly grow on substrates that are enriched in metals, particularly copper. Samples of these plants and their substrates were not available for this study, and there are no reports of analyses of them having been made for detecting metals other than copper.'

Other mosses were found to be indicators of other metals.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/bul/1198g/report.pdf

So it looks like the presence of these mosses precede the mining of the minerals in question.
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