Drink!

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Re: Drink!

Postby Mick Harper » 8:49 pm

This is not a world I recognise. Though of course I recognise the stereotyped thinking that everyone goes in for whenever words like 'lobbyists' and 'special interest groups' comes up. I find it increasingly irksome that everybody, including some of my closer colleagues, go in for these ridiculous bouts of hate-figure thinking. Everyone's pretty much the same, Borry.
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Re: Drink!

Postby Boreades » 8:52 pm

It's not hate, it's envy.

I wish I was as well connected and able to fill me pockets at the public expense.

P.S. (Declaration of interest) - part of my day-job organisation's raison d'etre is helping people persuade certain gov depts to part with cash. So I have no axe to grind, and I'm not trying to cut off my nose to spite my face. Just sharing some realities of how SIGs work.
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Re: Drink!

Postby Mick Harper » 9:00 pm

Ah, you're shifting your ground. Always a sign of progress. So you agree they are not crooks or liars or confidence tricksters, just good at their job. I am intrigued by your reference to public money. The only lobbyists mentioned are the WWF which does (I understand) get the odd subvention from the government, as many charities and NGO's do, but I wouldn't myself call them publicly-funded. Perhaps you might care to shift your ground a little further.
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Re: Drink!

Postby Boreades » 9:13 pm

Not shifting my ground, and gosh neither & nowhere did I say they are crooks or liars or confidence tricksters. After all, it's just good for business. I'm just correcting your misunderstanding for you. But do keep at it, the exercise is good for you (jumping to conclusions) ;-)
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Re: Drink!

Postby Boreades » 9:29 pm

Dragging the topic back to the important things:

Drink!
Or what fish do in it.

Chalk streams attract not just a wonderful variety of wildlife, they also attract a specific type of fisherman: fly fishing.

Despite some strange propaganda, there are chalk streams in many parts of Europe.

e.g. in Slovenia.

River Unica is a unique river, which is well known all around the world by its fascinating beauty, amazing mayfly hatches, big graylings and brown trouts. Legend of fly-fishing Edgar Pitzenbauer said it was one of his favourite rivers. Unica is a typical chalk stream which runs through unspoiled nature offering a great scenery and fly fishing.


http://www.flyfishingpoint.net/en/desti ... unica-unec

Also in Spanish Chalk Streams.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMqdBP72Z7c
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Re: Drink!

Postby Mick Harper » 10:18 pm

You're still concentrating on the wrong thing. If you've come up with Slovakian/Spanish chalk streams in no time flat, then the combined forces of The Guardian, Wiki and the WWF probably could have done so too. Assuming these august bodies wouldn't lie for no reason about something so easily falsifiable we are left with the following two possibilities

1. They are speaking the truth and what you have come up with are not "chalk streams". Since they clearly are chalk streams to some extent, that will provide us with exactly what we are looking for -- ie the difference between the classical Hampshire chalk stream and these other lesser breeds you have erroneously but helpfully identified.

2. The Big Three are wrong. The reason(s) they are wrong, since we now know it won't be for any of the perfidious reasons you advanced earlier, will again be just what we are looking for. Something that leads to tunnel vision and category errors. Now the decks are cleared, we can find out what they are

River Unica is a unique river, which is well known all around the world by its fascinating beauty, amazing mayfly hatches, big graylings and brown trouts. Legend of fly-fishing Edgar Pitzenbauer said it was one of his favourite rivers. Unica is a typical chalk stream which runs through unspoiled nature offering a great scenery and fly fishing.


So, another unique river (and therefore the 85% British figure would appear to be intact). Find out what the unique bit is all about and we should be in business. But please, Borry, try to wriggle off the orthodox hook for a little while.
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Re: Drink!

Postby TisILeclerc » 12:12 pm

If in doubt ask a Chalkologist.

Chalk has played a major role in our prehistory in NW Europe. The Downs and Chalk highlands are thought to have been more intensely farmed and less wooded that the lowlands and their high permeability (quick drainage/lack of surface drainage) made them ideal for transport routes. These routes were still in existence in Medieval times (Saxon Way in Kent). Major prehistoric sites such as Stonehenge were built on Chalk. Chalk mines with shafts and adits were excavated by farmers to provide them with fertiliser.

The major prehistoric use was not of the Chalk itself, but of the flints within the Chalk, which are known to have been used as tools by prehistoric man (eg. Boxgrove Man) as long as 500,000 years ago. Flints are known to have been traded over long distances throughout Europe. Chalk caves were also important for shelter at this time.


When heated, the calcium carbonate in limestone decomposes to lime, or calcium oxide. This is both used in the making of cement, it is a fertilizer for farmland and as a flux in smelting copper and lead ores and in making iron and steel.


It appears that chalk has many uses which would make it a valuable material for just about everybody as well as fly fishermen. Although some prefer a quick tickle and a gaff to whishing a stick and bit of string about.

http://www.geologyshop.co.uk/chalk.htm

As a source of clean drinking water it must have been an essential ingredient in settlement patterns, regardless of Norman fishermen who only came for a day's fishing.

Some people think that 'chalk is weird' so perhaps others are out there wondering about it. Perhaps it's like the fish in water who doesn't know what water is all about?

http://all-geo.org/erratics/2011/05/chalk-is-weird/

It would appear that Iowa is not only famous for its caucuses whatever they are but also their chalks.

http://ir.uiowa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi ... text=igsar

Did the Normans ever get there for a bit of fishing?
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Re: Drink!

Postby Mick Harper » 1:24 pm

This is all very interesting but still a million miles away from establishing what southern England (and Belgium) have that nowhere else in the world has got. The nearest you got was this

The Downs and Chalk highlands are thought to have been more intensely farmed and less wooded that the lowlands


Stuff and nonsense. They're crap for anything beyond sheep and racehorses

and their high permeability (quick drainage/lack of surface drainage) made them ideal for transport routes.


Stuff and nonsense. Hatty'll tell youi what it's like up on them thar windswept hills

These routes were still in existence in Medieval times (Saxon Way in Kent).


Stuff and nonsense. One was (Saxon Way in Kent) the other 5,668 were down in the valley with Solomon Burke.
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Re: Drink!

Postby TisILeclerc » 5:05 pm

In which case they grew sheep and horses. With all those ponies they had they would need a lot of grazing land and sheep are quick growers so are a ready source of food.

If they are dry and treeless, just grass and sheep, they'd be perfect for transport. Forget about the wind people outside London are a hardy breed.

I'm sure if the Islanders and Highlanders could drive cattle over the mountains of Scotland down to Smithfield with no problem their English counterparts could do something similar.

They could morris dance their way across with their little jingly bells leading the way.

As for Belgium, that's famous for beer unlike France.
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Re: Drink!

Postby hvered » 7:36 pm

another unique river (and therefore the 85% British figure would appear to be intact). Find out what the unique bit is all about and we should be in business.

The Unica flows underground more than above ground which is pretty weird. But weirder still is its transmogrifying into the Ljubljanica river. The Ljubljanica Gap is arguably unique though Berkshire's Goring Gap, if artificial, would gainsay its uniqueness.

A number of tools and assorted belongings seem to have got lost in the process [though as usual the articles are interpreted as votive offerings or similar]

The Ljubljanica has become a popular site for archaeologists and treasure hunters to dive for lost relics and artifacts. Locations in the river between Ljubljana and Vrhnika have offered up pieces of history from the Stone Age to the Renaissance, belonging to a variety of groups, from local ancient cultures to more well-known groups like the Romans and the Celts. One of the more significant findings is a yew spearhead, found in 2009 in Sinja Gorica.

Exactly why the Ljubljanica became an article dumping ground is unknown, but most historians believe that it is related to how local tradition has always held the river as a sacred place. These treasures may have been offered "to the river during rites of passage, in mourning, or as thanksgiving for battles won."
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