Who Built The Stones?

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Re: Who Built The Stones?

Postby Boreades » 9:41 am

hvered wrote:Why are there so many French names on Caldey Island? Is it something to do with Cistercian monks getting their hands dirty here?


Close. It now looks like they might have been Tironensian monks from France, who prided themselves on doing the building work. See also the Tironensian Abbey of St.Dogmael, close to Cardigan, coincidentally on the same line of longitude.

The first house of the order in Wales was St Dogmaels, Pembrokeshire, which was founded c. 1113. Soon therafter it established two daughter-houses in Pembrokeshire, namely, Pill and Caldy.


http://www.monasticwales.org/order/6

For these reasons, I've just added St.Dogmael to the TME map.
https://tme.cartodb.com/tables/the_mega ... empire/map

The order's first house in Wales, St Dogmaels, Pembrokeshire, which was established on the site of a clas (early Celtic church), which dated back to at least 600 AD.

In Scotland, the Tironensians were the monks and master craftsmen who built and occupied (until the Reformation) the abbeys of Selkirk (later re-located to Kelso (1128), Arbroath (1178), and Kilwinning (1140+).

The abbey (Tiron in France) owned at least one ship that traded in Scotland and Northumberland.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tironensian_Order

In due course, Mick will explain their special place in the making of Welsh history.
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Re: Who Built The Stones?

Postby Mick Harper » 11:28 am

Emphasis on 'making'.
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Re: Who Built The Stones?

Postby Boreades » 11:45 am

Besides being a monastic order quite different from the usual sorts (Benedictine, Cistercian, etc), the Tironensian order had an astonishing rate of growth.

Within less than five years of its creation, the Order of Tiron owned 117 priories and abbeys in France, England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tironensian_Order
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Re: Who Built The Stones?

Postby Mick Harper » 1:30 pm

I am giving my thoughts about this over on the AEL site on the Inventing History thread in the British History section.
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Re: Who Built The Stones?

Postby Boreades » 4:24 pm

Mick Harper wrote:I am giving my thoughts about this over on the AEL site on the Inventing History thread in the British History section.


And here's the link:
http://www.applied-epistemology.com/php ... 3959#33959
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Re: Who Built The Stones?

Postby hvered » 6:04 pm

The order's first house in Wales, St Dogmaels, Pembrokeshire, which was established on the site of a clas (early Celtic church), which dated back to at least 600 AD.

Source?
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Re: Who Built The Stones?

Postby hvered » 11:36 am

St Dogmael's, the Tironensians' first priory in Wales c 1115, is on the northern coast of Pembrokeshire, south-west Wales. The site overlooks the River Teifi estuary and a beach, Poppit Sands

Image

which is famous for a thousand-year-old fish trap built by the monks

Archaeologists studying aerial photographs of the coast have discovered a large 'V'-shaped fish trap in the sea off the Poppit coast. Some 280 yards long, and comprising a wall 3 feet wide, it now lies totally submerged (under some 12 feet of water), even at low tide.[30] Estimated to be some 1000 years old, in those days it would have appeared at low tide, acting as a shallow rock pool, trapping fish behind the walls as the tide flowed out. At that time the sea level was lower and the entrance to the Teifi Estuary lay further towards the Poppit side. Additionally, at its north-westerly point is a gap where fisherman would have placed nets to catch fish as the tide receded. It is believed to be one of the biggest fish-traps of its kind, but the structure’s orientation is such that it precludes the possibility that it was designed to catch migratory fish, such as salmon and sea trout, going up the river Teifi.

The shape of the fish trap has been discernible on Google Earth since 2006.


The beach is apparently so anomalous that geologists have had to find a special category to put it in
The last (Eemian) interglacial period, which lasted for some 30,000 years, is sometimes termed the "Poppit Interglacial", the name deriving from Poppit Sands. Here there is a perfectly exposed beach, where it rests upon a classic example of a raised beach platform just above the high-water mark.


Over on the opposite side of Pembrokeshire, immediately south, St Dogmael's set up a daughter priory on Caldey Island. Caldey is linked by a causeway to a smaller island, St Margaret's, the largest breeding site for cormorants in Wales.

The monks seem to have made a bee-line for sites of Megalithic interest.
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Re: Who Built The Stones?

Postby Boreades » 12:52 pm

hvered wrote:
The order's first house in Wales, St Dogmaels, Pembrokeshire, which was established on the site of a clas (early Celtic church), which dated back to at least 600 AD.

Source?


Sauce.
It's the one I mentioned earlier ;-)
http://www.monasticwales.org/order/6
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Re: Who Built The Stones?

Postby Boreades » 12:59 pm

I've not heard anything from my Templar author friend, but I'm too impatient to wait, so here I go:

Did the Tironensian monks from France establish a precedent of French folk coming over here and taking the best engineering jobs (like Isambard Kingdom Brunel trained in France)?

(Not to be confused with Normans coming over here and taking the best properties)

Or were they just following in the footsteps of the Celtic Saints from 1,000 years earlier?
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Re: Who Built The Stones?

Postby Mick Harper » 1:35 pm

An excellent article in the latest q-Mag http://www.q-mag.org/pytheas-megaliths- ... tides.html

Sample paragraph

Thomas noticed that the great megalithic observatories were all implanted in zones of strong tides. Carnac commands over the Atlantic Coast, and particularly over the difficult entrance to this interior sea which is the Gulf of Morbihan. The Great Menhir of Locqmariaquer (23m high, 347t, the height of the obelisk at Place de la Concorde, but 117t heavier!) surely served as a landmark to seamen, just as today the churchsteeple of Larmor-Baden. As for the “astronomic computer” of Stonehenge, it is situated halfway between Bristol and Southampton, the two points on Earth which (along with the Bay of Fundy in Canada) experience the strongest tides.
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