Pelagius was a political construct? According to some so was Jesus. Moslems tell us that he was the prophet sent to pave the way for Mohammed. Indians tell us that he is buried in India, or Tibet. And of course we have the idea that he was buried in France, or Glastonbury or that he was a warrior king who was castrated, had his lands seized and sent to be guarded at Chester or somewhere abouts. And then some say that he was either the Son of God or God himself. The One and Indivisible. Except in threes.
Rather like politics. Some say that Trotsky was the Messiah foretold by Lenin who was shot on the orders of Stalin.
Trotsky was impaled on an ice axe.
And the good pope Stalin lived happily ever after.
Unless Trotsky never lived. He was just a political construct invented by Uncle Joe to point the way of erroneous thought and what happens to sinners.
We have the same in the Moslem world with hundreds of sects. The weak ones who believe in happy clappy things like lurve and peace man soon get the chop.
But then they're all political constructs. ISIS is the CIA or Mossad in disguise, Bin Laden never existed and the Twin Towers were the work of alien Zionists to back up the devilish American regime and its dark arts.
Some say that's a load of old tosh. All made up. Political constructs and all that. And don't say it was in the papers so it must be true.
All religious and political and philosophical creeds have their dissenters. And dissenters have their own dissenters. Eventually their dissenters have to be dealt with. The Diggers and Levellers were quickly dealt with once their usefulness had run out and Cromwell wanted to 'normalize' the situation with himself at the top of the heap.
Christianity was fractured right from the beginning. Leave apart the Egyptian and other Arab and African Christian sects, there were the Jewish sects themselves who were not pleased with their religion being taken over by the Gentiles.
And then there was the good Yorkshireman Constantine who decided to be emperor and as a matter of military policy allow Christianity to come to the fore, even though he never converted himself. And the moving of the empire to Byzantium away from Rome and the subsequent Roman revolt by the Pope who wanted it all for himself.
And all the while there were the voices coming in from all over. These are the real teachings of Jesus. Not the scrabble for wealth and power that Rome goes in for.
Rome even backed William of Orange in Ireland. That doesn't go down well in parts of Derry.
Pelagius was a political construct certainly. Built by Pelagius to stand for a different strand of thought. And like the Pharaohs who fell out of favour has had his face erased. Rather like Trotsky. Airbrushed out of history.
He didn't exist. But I bet someone like him did. It's human nature. And the first thing the winner does is get rid of the evidence. They don't set up rebellious ideas. They can get out of control very quickly. Like a cargo cult, people will believe them.
Mick Harper wrote:So we are at least agreed that Pelagius didn't exist. I do not necessarily agree that his philosophy is any great shakes but, yes, I suppose it is important that the general strand of thought he represents should be allowed to flourish.
Mick Harper wrote:Most of us decline to believe in conspiracy theories.
Mick Harper wrote: I believe in my own conspiracy theories. I cannot answer your questions except to say that if the Catholic Church was engaged in an ideological battle with other churches then lots of made-up characters would presumably populate the propaganda landscape. Pelasgius may appeal to us in the liberal inteligentsia but I suspect would be viewed with horror by people living in the insecurity of the post-Roman world.
You'ire a pair of eejits. Nobody except the liberal intelligentsia in advanced mature democracies gives a fig about Pelasgian principles. All other societies at all other times are sufficiently insecure for security to trump all.
Mick Harper wrote:Remember, the Church unlike, say, the Roman Empire, had no physical force.
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