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Re: Pub Crawl

PostPosted: 9:17 am
by Boreades
Mick Harper wrote: we emphasise the importance of West Country gentry families in various activities, notably long distance seafaring

Some notes for tangential activity:

Musbury - Ash, for many generations the seat of the Drake family. It was the birthplace of John Churchill, 1st Duke of Marlborough (1650-1722) whose mother was Elizabeth Drake. - therefore literally the birthplace of a new dynasty that was to be of great importance in British history.

John Drake, although making his home at Mt. Drake, where both he and his son jointly presented to the living of the Musbury Church, was a ship-owner and trader at Exmouth.

Walter Raleigh grew up in Hayes Barton, a hamlet between Exmouth and East Budleigh.

In 1569, Raleigh left for France to serve with the Huguenots in the French religious civil wars.
Raleigh proceeded to finish his education in the Inns of Court.
In 1575, he was registered at the Middle Temple.

From 1568, La Rochelle became a centre for the Huguenots, and the city declared itself an independent Reformed Republic ... f_Religion

Roger Conant, founder of Salem, Massachusetts and the first governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, was born in East Budleigh.

Lots of connections!

Edit re Raleigh:

In 1575, he was registered at the Middle Temple. At his trial in 1603, he stated he had never studied law.
If he never studied law at the Middle Temple, presumably he was receiving a different kind of training?

Re: Pub Crawl

PostPosted: 11:34 am
by Mick Harper
Nice connection: Drake to Churchill. I am slightly amazed, given Winstonian Dynastic enthusiasms (especially his own!) that this connection is not made more of. To the point at least that I would have heard about it. It leads me to suppose that this Drake might not have been one of those Drakes. You'll have to pop down there, Borry, and check the archives. You've got all weekend so no need to hurry.

Re: Pub Crawl

PostPosted: 11:50 am
by Boreades
I am slightly amazed as well, as my family used to live near Hayes Barton, and I must have literally run past Raleigh's front door many times. Now I am trailing behind the Drake/Draco-Churchill/Marlborough connections by living near Marlborough and Dragon Hill. Synchronicity?

Adding it to the increasingly-long list of "To Do ASAP".

Re: Pub Crawl

PostPosted: 8:39 pm
by Boreades
Mick Harper wrote: It leads me to suppose that this Drake might not have been one of those Drakes.

Err, well this Drake did come from Mount Drake, which I had assumed was the Drake Ancestral HQ, and all Drakes (including Sir Francis) were chips off the old block.

Is your point that Winston Churchill would not have bothered with being known as the descendent of a "lesser" Drake, instead of the "greater" Drake?

Re: Pub Crawl

PostPosted: 8:47 pm
by Mick Harper
Quite so. Which means there is a (slight) mystery about why he didn't since being a Francis Drake descendant would, for most of us, be a basilisk on our escutcheon. Churchills were army, Drakes navy? A pirate in the family not something to brag about? The West Country a law unto itself? Perhaps, between themselves, gentry families have all kinds of feuds and status hang-ups that we lesser fry know nothing about.

Of course what we all would really like is that there is some Great Megalithic Mystery that is being carefully ignored by all parties. Come on, Churchill, what are you trying to hide?

Re: Pub Crawl

PostPosted: 8:56 pm
by Mick Harper
The present head of the dynasty, Rupert Soames, Winston's grandson, is the head of the world's largest out-sourcing company, Serco. In other words, Serco is the most efficient organisation in the world at persuading friends (and relations) in government to give them contracts to carry out what government hitherto did for itself. Very Megalithic.

Re: Pub Crawl

PostPosted: 10:07 pm
by Boreades
Does it help if we step back for a moment from the individuals and review the scenario that seems to be emerging from the mists?

1) A loose affiliation of related and acquainted families in Devon that were landed gentry but with strong sea-faring traditions
2) Many of the key individuals had connections to the Middle Temple, the HQ of KT in London
3) There were apparently Royalist but with very strong "Protestant" tendencies, strong enough to get involved in Huguenot wars in France
4) A marriage between the Churchill army and Draco navy would be a strategic alliance
5) Key players maintained business connections with Huguenot financiers in La Rochelle
6) La Rochelle was famously the base of the KT Western Navy
7) Key players were described as spies and pirates
8) Legends persists that Piracy in the Atlantic and beyond was the KT's war against the Vatican pursued by any other means.

Damn the "Dan Brown" stuff, this should be a best selling novel with movie rights and lots of swashbucking in warm sunny locations.

But why is the rum gone?

Re: Pub Crawl

PostPosted: 10:28 pm
by Boreades
As a tangent to the previous tangent, it's worth remembering our school history lessons about William of Orange landing his fleet at Brixham in 1688.

It's always been a mystery to me why someone from Holland would sail all the way to Devon (against the prevailing wind), and then march all the way back to London. When they could have just got the Dunkirk-Dover ferry (or some other shortcut) and saved themselves at lot of slog.

Perhaps the answer is that in 1688 there was still a living memory of Devon being a Protestant stronghold, connected to the Dutch Republic by both being pro-Huguenot (and receivers of Huguenot refugees). So the West Country would seem a safe haven for the new King?

Re: Pub Crawl

PostPosted: 10:51 pm
by TisILeclerc
'But why is the rum gone?'

Just a brief interlude. The government abolished the rum ration in 1970 I think which led to a mutiny of sorts in Rosyth.

Apart from that the genuine stuff can still be bought. 'Pussers Rum' from 'Purser'.

Drink that on a dead man's chest and you'll be seeing dragons all right.

Re: Pub Crawl

PostPosted: 11:00 pm
by Boreades
And, of course, a bogus claim to be descended from Sir Francis Drake would make one look more like a Charlie Drake.