Jack and the Beanstalk

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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby macausland » 10:05 am

Music, in today's society, is a commercial product sold by professional performers to a passive audience.

In the past music was integral to all aspects of life and was actively performed in all situations, especially when working.

We all know about sea shanties but singing was involved in many occupations. In the Scottish Highlands apart from lullabies to get children to sleep there were songs for rowing a boat, fulling cloth, milking a cow, churning butter etc.

Military practice was often accompanied by music to help in training particular manoeuvres and steps with pikes and other weapons. And as a method of signalling instructions and other information on the battlefield.

Shepherds are famous in most societies for playing pipes of one sort or another and of course lead animals had bells around their necks so even they played music. Fox hunters and others, where they are allowed to continue, use a variety of horns and bugles.

Add to this all the incantations, rituals, hymn singing and our ancestors were actively involved in music at all stages of their lives.

Regarding whistles I believe the Guanches of the Canary Isles had a whole language of whistles.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 8:16 am

Marko wrote:According to Wiki, Iacchus is a torch-bearer and synonymous with Dionysus, the god of wine, wilderness and vegetation

In Greek mythology, Iacchus (also Iacchos, Iakchos) (Greek: Ἴακχος) is an epithet of Dionysus,[1] particularly associated with the Mysteries at Eleusis, where he was considered to be the son of Zeus and Demeter.[2] Iacchus was the torch bearer of the procession from Eleusis, sometimes regarded as the herald of the 'divine child' of the Goddess, born in the underworld, and sometimes as the child itself. Iacchus was called "the light-bringing star of our nocturnal rite",[3] giving him possible associations with Sirius and Sothis

Jack features prominently in folklore in various guises, sometimes as a giant-killer, often a seeming simpleton, who succeeds through guile and even gambling, always 'Jack the lad'. It could be he is a homegrown version of Hermes, the herald or messenger. The jury is still out on the question of when and where the Greeks got their Iacchus.


Let us take Marko at his word and go a little further. Orthodoxy would have us believe that Jack is a nickname for John. We simply need to reverse this. This must be wrong. Jack is the forerunner of the modern John Jake and Jacob(?). Yes it's a megalithic name, but what does it signify? The answer is simple and obvious. Jack is Joke. Jack/Jokes were gamblers, tricksters, jesters ... cunning, daring risk takers, they cheated the odds, with a happy smile. They held a secret knowledge.

The Joker is the "gamble" card. It can be good or bad.

Jack is a wizard who gambles with the Gods, often over the placing of Megalithic Stones. Jack O' Kent. Jack O' Lantern. More confirmation of our Megalithic Jack/Joke trickster traveller.

Just as the stones are often linked to the coast, Jack is linked to the sea. Jack Tar. Of course our megalithic traveller needs a flag, the Jack, now known as the Union Jack, this flag had an emblem, which in fact was similar to that of the Viking Raven, it was of course the Jackdaw..........a clever fellow who is remarkably tame.......and could be taught tricks.

Shiver me timbers, all aboard the Jackdaw.......
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Marko » 9:08 am

spiral wrote: Just as the stones are often linked to the coast, Jack is linked to the sea. Jack Tar. Of course our megalithic traveller needs a flag, the Jack, now known as the Union Jack, this flag had an emblem, which in fact was similar to that of the Viking Raven, it was of course the Jackdaw..........a clever fellow who is remarkably tame.......and could be taught tricks.

Shiver me timbers, all aboard the Jackdaw.......

Back to Hermes and the caduceus. The Union Jack is based on Christian symbology, the crosses of saints George and Andrew, but they predate Christianity by millennia of course. So the six-pointed Jack ends up back to where it began, looking like a compass. Or a star. Or a knucklebone?

Wiki says the game was played with five objects. The British version if it still exists is a game of skill as well as chance and uses ten jacks but even so the pieces look remarkably like a child's drawing of moon and stars. They're kept in a small bag (cf. Hermes' pouch) useful for carrying around and using as an aide-memoire to gauge position. Perhaps.

Image
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby Mick Harper » 10:33 am

I am still somewhat baffled by the Continentals' insistence that James equals Jacques, rather than our own British John equals Jack. The complication goes further because their James is either the son of Zebedee and therefore Castor of Castor and Pollux (ie definitely a maritime Megalithic figure) or James the brother of Jesus, and definitely non-Megalithic.

John of course has his own twin baggage, being either John the Baptist (chief saint of the Megalithic system) or John the Apostle ie Jesus's favourite and therefore non-Megalithic or John the sidekick of Mary Magdalen (ie Megalithic) or John of the Revelations, and hence one of the presumptively Megalithic 'Gnostic funnies'.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 11:03 am

Mick Harper wrote:I am still somewhat baffled by the Continentals' insistence that James equals Jacques, rather than our own British John equals Jack. The complication goes further because their James is either the son of Zebedee and therefore Castor of Castor and Pollux (ie definitely a maritime Megalithic figure) or James the brother of Jesus, and definitely non-Megalithic.

John of course has his own twin baggage, being either John the Baptist (chief saint of the Megalithic system) or John the Apostle ie Jesus's favourite and therefore non-Megalithic or John the sidekick of Mary Magdalen (ie Megalithic) or John of the Revelations, and hence one of the presumptively Megalithic 'Gnostic funnies'.


Now that I have cracked this, I am glad that I don't get to worry too much about classical and biblical orthodox history. What orthodoxy regards as nicknames are in fact the old megalithic names. Jack is joke, Harold is herald. Robert is a robber aka hunter/thief. Your biblical, and classical, names are much later inventions (they're basically complicated by naming over) which derive from your megalithic names.

It is blindingly obvious that orthodoxy has cocked up and has this the wrong way round. We need to start with English megalithic names then everything will fall into place.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 12:45 pm

Marko wrote:So the six-pointed Jack ends up back to where it began, looking like a compass. Or a star. Or a knucklebone?

Wiki says the game was played with five objects. The British version if it still exists is a game of skill as well as chance and uses ten jacks but even so the pieces look remarkably like a child's drawing of moon and stars. They're kept in a small bag (cf. Hermes' pouch) useful for carrying around and using as an aide-memoire to gauge position. Perhaps.


Very clever. The link is that man uses the stars for direction. So it is the star shaped knucklebone (rather than the "brain" of the animal), that give the animal its direction. The knucklebones determine its fate.

Knucklebones are sometimes discovered as grave goods. Maybe their star shapes and alignments within the grave were important in signifying the life path of the deceased?
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby macausland » 3:26 pm

Cornishmen are known as Jacks, Scots as Jocks, and then there are the Onion Johnnies from Brittany riding like Jockeys on their trusty steeds or rusty bikes after having followed the old sea route back to Britain like the copper smelters of old.

Then there's Jack the lad, Jackanapes, jack knife, Jack in the box, Jack the giant killer, Jack and Jill the water spillers.
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 3:47 pm

macausland wrote:Cornishmen are known as Jacks, Scots as Jocks, and then there are the Onion Johnnies from Brittany riding like Jockeys on their trusty steeds or rusty bikes after having followed the old sea route back to Britain like the copper smelters of old.

Then there's Jack the lad, Jackanapes, jack knife, Jack in the box, Jack the giant killer, Jack and Jill the water spillers.


Don't encourage me. Hey you have done .... Steeplejack.

You start with the megalithic name often signalled by a nickname and everything follows.....
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby macausland » 4:28 pm

Lumberjack, Jack of all trades ...
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Re: Jack and the Beanstalk

Postby spiral » 4:50 pm

macausland wrote: Lumberjack, Jack of all trades ...


Yes. He just cracks on. Fair play.
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