Trade Secrets

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Re: Trade Secrets

Postby Neil » 11:18 pm

spiral wrote:Ok so this is a reworking of the idea that Newton got from your Greek sophists that there was a connection between colours, musical notes, metals and the days of the week......

I always found the seven colours of the rainbow a bit odd as a child - why separate purple into indigo and violet? When I found out that Newton deliberately fudged it to make it 7 and not 6 it was something of a relief.

In Godwin's book he states that it all relates to the music of the spheres. Each planet's sound corresponding to a particular vowel and the names of the gods being composed of words containing just vowels. Hence gods like Ea and Io, etc. He also claims the name Jehovah, when spoken, is composed of just a string of vowels.

It's interesting to note how the numbers 7 and 12 figure. 7 planets and 12 constellations, 7 days and 12 months, 7 notes in a key from a possible 12 on the musical scale. Should there be 12 consonants to go with the seven vowels???

A remnant of all this can be seen in the do, re, mi, fa, sol, la, ti singy thingy. Sol representing sun.

As to what the Brits were doing it might have been this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canntaireachd

Canntaireachd is the ancient Scottish Highland method of notating classical pipe music or Ceòl Mòr by a combination of definite syllables, which means the various tunes could be more easily recollected by the learner, and could be more easily transmitted orally ...in general, the vowels represent the notes, and consonants the embellishments

Where does music fit in the Megalithic world?
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Re: Trade Secrets

Postby macausland » 8:42 am

Neil

You missed out 12 pennies in a shilling and 12 inches in a foot which is what we had before we were decimated in the seventies.

I think your 'sol' is usually spelled and pronounced 'soh' rather than 'sol'.

As for the cainntaireachd, that was certainly used for learning pipe tunes but much of it refers to fingers and the various fingerings. The learner had to learn the song first and then he could apply it to the chanter itself. I suppose 'chanter' is also a singer in its own right. I think Francis Collinson argued a long time ago that Scottish pipe music which only arrived in the middle ages was brought over from the more ancient harp music. So it's possible that cainntaireachd came over ready formed from the old harpists. Much to their disgust no doubt.

Here's a series of interesting videos on cainntaireachd on youtube for anyone interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M893z11 ... -XtFxo-vS4
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Re: Trade Secrets

Postby spiral » 8:05 pm

Neil wrote:In Godwin's book he states that it all relates to the music of the spheres. Each planet's sound corresponding to a particular vowel and the names of the gods being composed of words containing just vowels. Hence gods like Ea and Io, etc. He also claims the name Jehovah, when spoken, is composed of just a string of vowels.

It's interesting to note how the numbers 7 and 12 figure. 7 planets and 12 constellations, 7 days and 12 months, 7 notes in a key from a possible 12 on the musical scale. Should there be 12 consonants to go with the seven vowels???

Where does music fit in the Megalithic world?


You can spot an interesting line of inquiry. Thanks for posting.
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Re: Trade Secrets

Postby Neil » 11:10 pm

macausland wrote:I think your 'sol' is usually spelled and pronounced 'soh' rather than 'sol'.

That's what I originally thought too as that's how I was taught it, but when I checked it was indeed 'sol', although 'soh' is also common too. In fact the system is called solmization.

Solm quite fittingly brings to mind words like solemn and psalm.
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Re: Trade Secrets

Postby Boreades » 12:56 pm

Musica Universalis (The Music Of The Spheres) might be described by some as the Unified Field Theory of its time. Personally, I would describe as even greater than that, as it unified all the Natural Sciences in a meaningful and harmonious whole.

Image

Seven planets
Seven colours
Seven musical notes
Seven vowels
Seven days of the week

No wonder that the Greeks also arranged their study into The Seven Liberal Arts to match.

Image

How strange is it that The Seven Liberal Arts should resurface in a 12th century pictorial encyclopedia Hortus Deliciarum by Herrad of Landsberg, an Abbess of Hohenburg Abbey.

But perhaps it's not strange after all when the same part of Europe gave birth to The Rosicrucian Enlightenment.

Which greatly influenced notable British philosophers like Robert Fludd. Who, besides being a notable author, also "invented" a monochord that linked the Ptolemaic universe to musical intervals. Fludd was an influence on Francis Bacon, and from there we get to Elias Ashmole, Newton, the Royal Society, and the "pre-history" of Freemasonry in Britain, which still encourages all Fellowcrafts to study the Seven Liberal Arts.
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Re: Trade Secrets

Postby spiral » 11:27 am

Well it's an interesting line. But to my mind a false trail, as it's really orthodox "classical"history dependent on your Brits using something similar to the clumsy Greek numbers/arithmetic.... which were based on the greek letters/sounds of the alphabet. Your megaliths were counting and trading using a variety of bases way before then. Dan C argues on Applied Epistemology "Days and Confused" that the Brits might not have used a variant of the greek/roman weekday/planets.....I agree.

They were it turns out as interested in the tides as the stars......

Still it neatly fits with the Hermes, theme of ME. So what do I know?
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Re: Trade Secrets

Postby macausland » 1:57 pm

Spiral

Talking about weekdays it's interesting that there are seven days in the week. Except after an excessively 'festive' weekend in which time seems rather variable.

' Ancient man solved the enigma of those irrational units, root2; PI; root3 etc.,
by trial and error and in doing so formulated a mathematical system based upon the number 7. Why? Because it worked!'

This quote is taken from an analysis of ancient measurements which link megalithic units to British Rail gauge.

It's a bit heavy going but is an interesting discussion of ancient measuring systems which connect Scandinavia and Britain amongst others.

http://www.cartographyunchained.com/pdfs/ms3_pdf.pdf

P.S.

I've just realised that this came from a site I mentioned before. This is a link to the article with diagrams

http://www.cartographyunchained.com/ms3.html
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Re: Trade Secrets

Postby Mick Harper » 10:45 pm

Well worth a read.
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Re: Trade Secrets

Postby spiral » 8:03 am

macausland wrote:Spiral

Talking about weekdays it's interesting that there are seven days in the week. Except after an excessively 'festive' weekend in which time seems rather variable.




http://www.cartographyunchained.com/ms3.html


Thanks Mac.

It is heavy going. I can't say I have got my brain round it. You really need to break it down into chunks to get a flavor of the author's ideas. MH managed it in an afternoon, which only goes to show how inadequate my maths is.

In abstract, I am not looking to use a variant of pure maths to show how smart the ancients were. There are a number of folks who have traveled this road....

I am more interested in the practical.

So although seven....might be a MAGIC number. In just seven days god created the world......

And, whereas for most folks (and God) seven falls between six and eight.......

For Spiral, severn=sever and can fall between any number and one (let's say six and one,) and has the function of what you think of as end/split/rest.......

I am less interested in the elitist Babylonians' counting system, or god, and more interested in your common everyday Yan, Tan Tither....
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Re: Trade Secrets

Postby Boreades » 9:57 am

spiral wrote:Well it's an interesting line. But to my mind a false trail, as it's really orthodox "classical"history dependent on your Brits using something similar to the clumsy Greek numbers/arithmetic.... which were based on the greek letters/sounds of the alphabet. Your megaliths were counting and trading using a variety of bases way before then. Dan C argues on Applied Epistemology "Days and Confused" that the Brits might not have used a variant of the greek/roman weekday/planets.....I agree.

They were it turns out as interested in the tides as the stars......

Still it neatly fits with the Hermes, theme of ME. So what do I know?


I would not disagree, as I tend more towards our ancient Brits being influenced by Phoenicians rather than Greeks.
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