Trade Secrets

[spiral]

Perhaps Albania and Albion are cognate after all.

You must stop doing this.

The list of territories really ours, is growing. I thought the French might be sniffy about our demand for Paris to be returned. Now we have Albania. It is going to be a busy first 100 days, in power.

Keep it up.

[macausland]

hvered:

'The question of Basque settling for instance; could it be when Spain's empire went bankrupt, more or less coinciding with north-west Europe's Industrial Revolution, or even more latterly during the Franco years? Would a Basque refugee be more likely to go to at least nominally Catholic Ireland?'

Your assumption here is that Basques emigrated at various periods for different reasons.

Many of them did. Many children were evacuated to Britain at the time of the Spanish civil war.

http://www.basquechildren.org/

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/histor ... orth_East/

Lots of refugees fled to France of course.

I imagine many emigrated during the industrial revolution although I would have imagined that Ireland would not have figured prominently for that reason. If they were looking for a Catholic country to settle in they would have had a very large choice all over nearby southern Europe.

The Irish did have volunteers in the International Brigade but there were also IRA supporters, the Blue Shirts, fighting for Franco. Perhaps the Catholic church could have rescued 'good Catholics' but I doubt if they would have done much for Republicans.

Regarding DNA. Roman commentators commented on the visual appearance of the Silures in South Wales claiming they looked more like the inhabitants of Spain with their black hair and other features. Similarly in Ireland there is always the question of the 'black Irish' who are similar in appearance.

On average the people of North Wales tend to be much fairer even today than their compatriots in the south.

I think the argument about DNA rests on changes in its structure over the generations which is why the 'experts' argue that 'Saxon' DNA in England is older than its counterpart in the supposed homelands of these people. This is used to claim that the 'Saxons' whoever they were were already in England a very long time before the 'Saxon invasions'.

If we accept that there was an ice age which ended around ten thousand years ago it seems logical that the inhabitants of the north would move south and once the thaw set in start to return, presumably following the various animal herds.

We know from the sonographic exploration of the north sea and the Irish sea that the British Isles did form an extension of western Europe so it is logical that those people moving northwards would eventually find themselves in all parts of Britain including the western areas of what were to become Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Many more would have settled in those areas now under the seas and others on the central and eastern parts of what is now Britain.

The DNA mentioned by Oppenheimer in north west Wales is specifically not associated with the Basques which is why he points out that it closely matches that of the region of Albania. His proposition that this settlement was connected with Copper mining and a trade with the eastern Mediterranean and the Adriatic could easily fit in with discussions on this site about the trade in minerals between Britain and that area.

[Rocky]

I read somewhere that Sami are related genetically to Basques and Berbers though all such claims should be treated with caution. What do the genetics say about Sami/Basque/Berbers and Inuit, Aleuts and whoever else is up there?

[hvered]

The DNA mentioned by Oppenheimer in north west Wales is specifically not associated with the Basques which is why he points out that it closely matches that of the region of Albania. His proposition that this settlement was connected with Copper mining and a trade with the eastern Mediterranean and the Adriatic could easily fit in with discussions on this site about the trade in minerals between Britain and that area.

The location of Albania shows Dyrrachium or Durres was a trade hub



and the terminus on the Adriatic of the overland route to the Black Sea, obviating a lengthy and difficult sea voyage.

Prehistoric trade routes along the Adriatic are fairly easy to track from the remains at Salona, Split etc. so presumably ships from northern Europe carrying copper, tin, salt, luxury items such as amber, would have plied their trade in what would become Albania too.

[Boreades]

Stephen Oppenheimer has an interesting video on youtube where he discusses genetic origins of the British Isles.

Towards the end of the video he briefly touches on copper mining in North Wales and Iberia.

Apparently they've found a strong dna connection between North West Wales and Albania/Balkans His theory is that the Albanians, about 7,000 years ago were copper miners and around 4,500 years ago came to North Wales to mine the copper there. I think he claims that 38 per cent of the people in that area share dna with Albania and the Balkans. He suggests that possibly they may have brought their language with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFQiuGvxMd0

Perhaps Albania and Albion are cognate after all.

I'd love to find results of similar profiling in Cyprus and the Timna Valley. Both ancient copper mining areas, until exhaused of ore and/or local forests to smelt the ore. At which time, the mining and trade moved further west.

[macausland]

hvered

'The location of Albania shows Dyrrachium or Durres was a trade hub'

I wonder if Dyrrachium and Durres could be 'Dor' names as in Durdle etc?

[hvered]

Durres could well be seen as a 'door' or opening on an inhospitable coastline



Wiki says dubiously the name is thought to be from Greek meaning 'difficult ridge' or perhaps rocky coastline though from the map it seems to be the one green spot in an area as mountainous and arid as say southern Spain. Dunno whether a sea journey would be more challenging but even now there aren't that many main roads hereabouts.

[spiral]

Stephen Oppenheimer has an interesting video on youtube where he discusses genetic origins of the British Isles.

Towards the end of the video he briefly touches on copper mining in North Wales and Iberia.

Apparently they've found a strong dna connection between North West Wales and Albania/Balkans His theory is that the Albanians, about 7,000 years ago were copper miners and around 4,500 years ago came to North Wales to mine the copper there. I think he claims that 38 per cent of the people in that area share dna with Albania and the Balkans. He suggests that possibly they may have brought their language with them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFQiuGvxMd0

Perhaps Albania and Albion are cognate after all.

ALBANIA

Medieval Latin name of the country called by its inhabitants Shqipëri (literally "land of eagles," from shqiponje "eagle"), from Medieval Greek Albania, possibly from a pre-IE word *alb "hill" (also proposed as the source of Alps) or from the PIE root *albho- "white" (see alb). Roman Albania was a land by the Caspian Sea (modern Daghestan); in English Albania was occasionally also a name for Scotland.

Excluding the Latin bit "white hill" "white cliff"

[macausland]

Spiral

' in English Albania was occasionally also a name for Scotland.'

I think you've been short changed by that Etymological dictionary Spiral.

It should have added that 'Scotland' was known to its own inhabitants as Alba or Albann. Similar names are found in Welsh, Cornish and Manx. The gaelic speaking Scots came to what we now know as Scotland from Northern Ireland and kept the name Alba rather than renaming the country.

Wiki has a more detailed description and mentions the similarity with Albania.

The usual explanation is that it means 'white' but why Scotland should be singled out for that designation is unclear to me. Albania was known by a variety of names, Illyria being the most familiar one. It was inhabited by many different tribes including one called the Alboi. Perhaps after all the invasions that took place in the area the Alboi were able to dominate and give the country its present name?

What I find interesting is that Oppenheimer's dna data applies to a specific part of north Wales and has nothing to do with Scotland as far as I know. Also, the dna is apparently dated to about two thousand years before the Romans came to Britain and possibly Albania.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alba

[Boreades]

Wiki says dubiously the name is thought to be from Greek meaning 'difficult ridge' or perhaps rocky coastline though from the map it seems to be the one green spot in an area as mountainous and arid as, say, southern Spain. Dunno whether a sea journey would be more challenging but even now there aren't that many main roads hereabouts.

For me, on one of my many long sea voyages, on a trade route down a long and rocky coastline, that one green spot would stand out like an oasis in a desert. As the only one good place to stop for fresh water and supplies. Inevitably it would become a trade hub.