Megalithic shipping and trade routes

[Boreades]

I wonder if the Hanseatic League was based on a memory of what had happened in the past ...

If the cosy arrangement they appear to have had with the Teutonic Order is anything to go by, then yes. Like "our" Knights Templar, the Teutonic Order had to rebrand itself after retreating / making a strategic withdrawal from Jerusalem.

Like the better-known Knights of the Temple and Knights of St. John of Jerusalem, the Teutonic Knights were members of a military order born of the crusades. Unlike these older orders, however, the Teutonic Order maintained a distinct national identity which connected it with Germany17 and led it eventually to focus its efforts and its operations in the Baltic region. There the Order conducted crusades against Baltic pagans and founded a feudal state,18 eventually becoming sole ruler of Prussia and Livonia.

I imagine that the Norwegians would have had a greater input.

Like Tisi, I wondered why Norway and Sweden weren't a bigger part. This might explain it...

The Hansa established itself decisively as a major political and military power in the Baltic region in the late 14th Century, when the alliance of merchant towns declared war on — and defeated — the kingdom of Denmark and its ally, Norway. The resulting Treaty of Stralsund, signed in 1370, confirmed Hanseatic trade privileges and protections in Denmark; in a second treaty, the Danes ceded four fortresses on the Sound (with two-thirds of their income) to the Hansa for 15 years and gave the Hansa veto power over the election of the next Danish king.

The histories of the Hansa and the Teutonic Order were intertwined almost from their beginnings. As mentioned above, the Teutonic Order had its origins in a crusader hospital founded during the siege of Acre; the founders were German merchants from the towns of Lübeck and Bremen. In this sense, the Order and the Hansa sprang from the same roots; merchants from Lübeck and other North German towns provided the source element for both groups. The conquest of the Baltic territories was also to some extent a cooperative venture; the Hansa provided ships and support for the Teutonic Order's conquest of Prussia in the mid-13th Century; in turn, the Teutonic Knights provided protection for the merchants of the Hansa.

(The Gotland Company, a merchant organization considered by many scholars to be a forerunner of the Hansa, had had a similar relationship 40 years earlier with the Brethren of the Sword in that Order's crusade against Livonia.)

Refs: http://www.troynovant.com/Franson-JM/Es ... tonic.html

A friend of ours has just bought a Hanse Yacht, to please his wife! Apparently she liked the styling.
https://www.hanseyachts.com
Tut, this sets a dangerous precedent in our household. It's giving M'Lady ideas of upgrading. I didn't get where I am today by having a marina full of modern yachts that don't leak and need constant maintenance.

[TisILeclerc]

Here are the Knights who say Nein in action.

Now you see them now you don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uez8dJ-MGw

[Boreades]

As I'm a master of the bleeding obvious, I'll ask the bleeding obvious questions.

1) If the dynamic duo of the Hanseatic League and the Teutonic Order did so well (when it did and for so long), why did it take Britain and Holland so long to copy it?

2) Were the combined efforts of the notable families (Hawkins/Raleigh/Drake/Churchill/Marlborough/Uncle Tom Cobbly & All) a conscious effort to imitate that business model?

[Boreades]

3) Who were these Baltic pagans mentioned in passing in the Teutonic Knights history?

In 1224 a Polish Duke, Conrad of Masovia, asked the Teutonic Order for help in defending his lands against attacks by the pagan Pruzzi, or Prussians. The Order — after obtaining guarantees from Emperor Frederick II that it could retain and rule all the lands it conquered — agreed, and in 1230 began its decades-long campaign of conquest in the Baltic. The victorious Teutonic Knights founded Kulm in 1232, Marienwerder in 1233, Thorn in 1234, and Elbing in 1237; by 1239 the Knights "... had reached the coast, and had established a network of fortresses from which they could dominate the whole territory." In 1237, the Order absorbed a smaller military order, the Brethren of the Sword, which had won lands by crusading in Estonia and Livonia; those territories augmented the Order's holdings.

Given a few centuries of "lost time", are these remnants of old-school pre-Christian and pre-Roman folks?

If so, do they demand more attention as a potential part of a Megalithic Baltic Trade network?

[Mick Harper]

I am irritated with myself for not spotting that the Prussians were heathen at least two hundred years after they ought to have been given the pace of Christian advance eastward and northward. I think it is this word 'heathen' that is to blame. If we take contemporary knightly orders being given similar licence to conquer Muslims in Spain and Portugal we just shrug, Moslems are there for the taking (if you can do it). But the word 'heathen' conveys a sense exactly opposite to Muslim ie 'of no religion'. Muslims are the opponents of Christians, on the same intellectual level; heathens are not.

Unless of course they are, and the Prussian religion was something fairly sophisticated. Is the fact that the religion is not reported (to my knowledge) a case of 'careful ignoral'? Certainly the time taken to occupy Prussia and the elaboration of the defensive measures suggest something like (and it's contemporary to) the English subjugation of Wales.

[Boreades]

Ah, thank goodness, a leetle lamp is a'glimmering in the 'arper 'oursehold.

'Allo, 'allo, 'tis I Le Prussian.

[Boreades]

I am irritated with myself for not spotting that the Prussians were heathen at least two hundred years after they ought to have been ..... Certainly the time taken to occupy Prussia and the elaboration of the defensive measures suggest something like (and it's contemporary to) the English subjugation of Wales.

Yes; similarly, I almost did a double-take when I first noticed that. As in, eh?, it's 1200AD already, I thought the whole of Europe was "Christian" by then? 'Ello, 'ello, what's going on 'ere then?* Smells like more Normans?

Edit:
* "'Ello, 'ello," as in a 'istorical policeman proceeding about 'is henquiries.
Not to be confused with Tisi's ('Allo, 'allo)

[TisILeclerc]

Likewise for Scandinavia. And the Sami didn't convert until the eighteenth century.

'The Christianization of Scandinavia took place between the 8th and the 12th centuries. The realms of Scandinavia proper, Denmark, Norway and Sweden, established their own Archdioceses, responsible directly to the Pope, in 1104, 1154 and 1164, respectively. The conversion to Christianity of the Scandinavian people required more time, since it took additional efforts to establish a network of churches. The Samis remained unconverted until the 18th century.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian ... candinavia

What we see is Rome coming back to claim their possessions only doing it for good this time.

The Irish were a bit of a hindrance but they were soon sorted out.

There is even a theory doing the rounds that Roman Christianity was actually old military Mithraism in new clothes. Although that is disputed even if there are similarities.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/ro ... e_01.shtml

'Suppose that we view the Roman empire of the first four centuries AD as a market in which assorted religions competed for business. In business, enterprising firms raid each other for useful ideas and marketing strategies.

Did the upstart Christian firm borrow from pagan salesmanship, or vice versa, or was there a two-way flow of borrowings? Or did the rival firms not compete, but rather follow different strategies independently? '

Christians naturally argue against this idea and claim that Christianity had no need to borrow from anywhere else.

I would say that Jesus may not have borrowed but that does not mean that later followers did not borrow. Or that Mithraists borrowed from Christianity as it suited their purposes.

'Mithraism was one of the major religions of the Roman Empire which was derived from the ancient Persian god of light and wisdom. The cult of Mithraism was quite prominent in ancient Rome, especially among the military. Mithra was the god of war, battle, justice, faith, and contract. According to Mithraism, Mithra was called the son of God, was born of a virgin, had disciples, was crucified, rose from the dead on the third day, atoned for the sins of mankind, and returned to heaven. Therefore, the critics maintain that Christianity borrowed its concepts from the Mithra cult. But is this the case? Can it be demonstrated that Christianity borrowed from the cult of Mithra as it developed its theology?'

https://carm.org/christianity/bible/doe ... nity-false

[Boreades]

There is even a theory doing the rounds that Roman Christianity was actually old military Mithraism in new clothes. Although that is disputed even if there are similarities.

It's very understandable that Christians would dispute this. I for one would not like being told that what I thought was unique, bright & shiny & brand new is in fact second-hand and recycled with a new label on the jar.

Mithraism (as it existed before Josephus Flavius established Paulian Christianity in Rome) was :

an association of mutual assistance, whose members were free, in their public life, to worship whatever god they liked. It seems it was not a mass religion, but an organisation to which only members of the Roman army and of the imperial bureaucracy were admitted.

Mithraic Christianity then spread throughout the Roman Empire.

This is the part that most disturbs modern-day (Paulian) Christians. Even more so when it appears that the following Mithrac attributes pre-date Christianity.

• Mithra was born in December of the virgin Anahita.
• The babe was wrapped in swaddling clothes, placed in a manger and attended by shepherds.
• He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
• He had 12 companions or "disciples."
• He performed miracles.
• As the "great bull of the Sun," Mithra sacrificed himself for world peace.
• Mithra ascending to heaven in his solar cart, with sun symbol.
• Mithra was viewed as the Good Shepherd, the "Way, the Truth and the Light," the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah.
• Mithra is omniscient, as he "hears all, sees all, knows all: none can deceive him."
• He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
• His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
• His religion had a eucharist or "Lord's Supper."
• Mithra "sets his marks on the foreheads of his soldiers."
• Mithraism emphasized baptism.

[TisILeclerc]

A military religion would be the perfect answer for gaining control of whole societies.

The Roman emperors were forever being threatened by their own generals and often overthrown. The soldiers owed loyalty to their generals first especially when promised part of the booty if successful.

Create a super deity who could see everything and judge and get people to believe it and you're on to a winner.

The problem with Christianity is that the original teachings are peaceful and not imperialistic. Roman emperors could see that so the religion had to be changed. Which it was several times. It still changes even today.

Constantine the Great was a Mithras worshipper yet he is credited with introducing Christianity to the empire. The Catholic popes in Rome took his work one step further replacing the emperor with the pope.

The cult of Mithras is much older as this article tells us.

'It was in the dissemination of the original Mysteries of Mithras, that we find the first coalescence of those families which would ultimetely produce the leading Illuminati bloodlines. This network was centered around the House of Herod, and included an important Armenian bloodline from Cappadocia, of mixed Alandrian and Persian heritage, a hereditary Syrian priesthood of Baal, and the family of Julius Ceasar. It was these families that were involved first in the formation and spread of the Mithraic cult, and ultimately, in a conspiracy to supplant the Christian Church, which succeded when one of their descendants, Constantine the Great, implemented Catholicism, which was but an assimilation of Mithraism, by associating Jesus with the cult of the dying-god.'

http://www.conspiracyschool.com/mithraism



One area, conspicuous by its absence in the map is the province of the Hanseatic League and Teutonic knights. Under the Roman Empire part II this error will be rectified.

Here's Mithra the boy himself. Is that a snake entwined around him?



Getting back to our own roots, if the middle eastern cults wanted to finish the megalithics and their descendants off they certainly knew what they were doing. And a jolly good job they made of it as well. To the extent where we are forever being told that our ancestors were superstitious barbarians covered in woad who couldn't read or write and contributed nothing to world history until civilization was brought to them.