Megalithic shipping and trade routes

[TisILeclerc]

Megalithic Copernicus?

Well, he did live in a stone tower so he could well have been. His own little megalith.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1E8a5V9h6Y

As for the Teutonic knights he appears to have not been very fond of them.

'In 1519 Copernicus wrote to the King of Poland, asking for help against the Teutonic Knights who were threatening the city. The letter however was intercepted, and the Teutonic Knights took and burned the city (Copernicus and other canons had left the city shortly before).[5]'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frombork

It's not surprising the Knights took over. They were in the pay of the pope and other secular rulers.

'In 1234, Pope Gregory IX issued the Golden Bull of Rieti Pietati proximum, confirming the prior deals, stating that the Prussian lands of the Order were only subject to the Pope, not a fief of any other secular or ecclesiastical power. The Roman Curia had already made a conform promise, nevertheless von Salza had insisted to set it down in writing

The bull was again confirmed by Pope Alexander IV in 1257.'


'The Golden Bull of Rimini was a Golden Bull issued by Emperor Frederick II, at his court in Rimini in March 1226[1] to confirm the Teutonic Knights' possessions in Prussia. It was the first of three similar documents, followed by the Treaty of Kruschwitz (Kruschwitz) in 1230, and the papal Golden Bull of Rieti in 1234.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Bull_of_Rimini

In addition to the religious Crusade against the Old Prussians there was 'ethnic cleansing' and population replacement on a massive scale.

'Numerous knights from throughout Catholic Europe joined in the Prussian Crusades, which lasted sixty years. Many of the native Prussians from Sudovia who survived were resettled in Samland; Sudauer Winkel was named after them. Frequent revolts, including a major rebellion in 1286, were defeated by the Teutonic Knights.In 1283, according to the chronicler of the Teutonic Knights, Peter of Dusburg, the conquest of the Prussians ended and the war with the Lithuanians began.

In 1243, papal legate William of Modena divided Prussia into four bishoprics — Culm, Pomesania, Ermland, and Samland — under the Bishopric of Riga. Prussians were baptised at the Archbishopric of Magdeburg, while Germans and Dutch settlers colonized the lands of the native Prussians; Poles and Lithuanians also settled in southern and eastern Prussia, respectively. Significant pockets of Old Prussians were left in a matrix of Germans throughout Prussia and in what is now the Kaliningrad Oblast. Their language eventually became extinct as a separate ethnic group.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

The Church and its client warlords were clearly in empire building mode.

[Boreades]

There's something strange here. The Teutonic Knights seem to have been trying to suppress pagans from c.1200 to 1500+, but apparently not doing a very good job, if it took 300 years and they were still trying to do it by the time of Copernicus. Wos 'appen'in?

[Boreades]

Does this help?

Even in the face of Crusaders, by the time of Grand Duke Gediminas, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania expanded its influence until it formed the political centre of a vast and prosperous "pagan Empire". Lithuanians thus survived late into history as appreciable representatives of ancient European paganism, preserving this tradition as the official, state religion until the late 14th and early 15th centuries when Christianity was finally accepted by the states of the Grand Duchy, again for political reasons. Lithuanians were thus the last non-nomadic people in Europe practicing pristine Indo-European polytheism. The Sami, who remained nomadic, were the exception, but they did not form a state of their own or speak an Indo-European language. Unofficially, Lithuanians continued in their adherence to traditional paganism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romuva_%28religion%29

The Grand Duchy of Lithuania (or the complete name Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Ruthenia and Samogitia) was a European state from the 13th century until 1795. The state was founded by the Lithuanians, one of the polytheistic Baltic tribes from Aukštaitija. The duchy later expanded to include large portions of the former Kievan Rus' and other Slavic lands, covering the territory of present-day Belarus, Latvia, and Lithuania, and parts of Estonia, Poland, Russia, and Ukraine. At its greatest extent in the 15th century, it was the largest state in Europe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Duchy_of_Lithuania

[TisILeclerc]

That's fascinating.

What else has been hidden from official history?

We are told that the English willingly converted, as did the Irish but I wonder who was the equivalent of the Teutonic Knights in those days. The idea that a kingdom converted because of a story about a sparrow flying in and out of a feasting hall always seemed a bit dodgy to me.

I still see the whole campaign as being the reinvention of the Roman empire with the whole of Europe being its goal with the centre in Rome.

They used a desert religion against all the watery religions of the north to do this. And never mind what Jesus said, let's get the swords out and do a good job.

[Boreades]

Unless of course they are, and the Prussian religion was something fairly sophisticated. Is the fact that the religion is not reported (to my knowledge) a case of 'careful ignoral'?

Accounts of Baltics Pagans are elusive, but perhaps this gives us some clues?

http://www.lithuanian.net/resource/myths.htm

[Boreades]

Viewing the Crusaders/Templars/Teutonic Knights through the mists of time, we might be forgiven for lumping them all together as one single fighting force. But a detailed look at the situation shows it was not so clear cut. Besides the "regular" armies of the Crusaders, there were several "irregular/special forces" armed militias operating:

Knights of the Temple
Knights of St. John of Jerusalem
Teutonic Knights
Brethren of the Sword

There were also a few "rent a mob" outfits like The People's Crusade, Peter the Hermit with 40,000 men and women
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_the_Hermit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Crusade

and of course, the elephant in the corner... (drum roll please) ... The Normans.

All separate organisations with their own funding and own agendas.

See the Crusader States.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusader_states

[Mick Harper]

And don't forget both Switzerland and Portugal were Megalithic-founded states.

[Boreades]

We might be forgiven for having a rose-tinted view of the Crusaders et al. Like Sean Connery as "Good King Richard" turning up at the end of Robin Hood. God bless him. He must be one of the Good Guys?

We might also wonder who are the equivalent of the Templars/Teutonic Knights these days?

[TisILeclerc]

'We might also wonder who are the equivalent of the Templars/Teutonic Knights these days?'

ISIS?

[Boreades]

ISIS? Not quite.

Some people (but not TME contributors) might be surprised to know we still have Crusaders fighting Holy Wars in Europe. Of course the names of the parties involved have changed a bit, but the intent seems to still be the same.

More specifically, in South Eastern Europe. You might have noticed that coverage of the situation in Ukraine has disappeared from the mainstream media. Why? It's a mystery. Only four months ago we were being told daily that Russians (the pagans) were massing to invade, or an invasion was imminent. What's happened since, and why don't we hear any more about it?

Regardless of how the current Western Ukraine government came into being, it did more or less represent the "regular" forces. Since then, irregular armed militia have caused chaos.

Like the Saint Mary Battalion (the militia which recently pledged to create a "Christian Taliban" and insists that "Moscow must burn").

Korchynsky, a former leader of an ultra-nationalist party and a devout Orthodox Christian, wants to create a Christian "Taliban" to reclaim eastern Ukraine as well as Crimea, which was annexed by Russia in 2014. He isn't going to give up his quest lightly.

"I would like Ukraine to lead the crusades," said Korchynsky, whose battalion's name is Saint Mary. "Our mission is not only to kick out the occupiers, but also revenge. Moscow must burn."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/ ... YT20150729

Stereotypically, a lot depends on which side of the fence we are, and how far apart in history. So of course they are variously Knights Templars, Teutonic Knights, nationalists, freedom fighters, mercenaries, irregular forces or terrorists.