Megalithic shipping and trade routes

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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby hvered » 4:42 pm

I'd have said these crusader-style orders were more like today's multinational and banking corporations.

The other night I saw part of a programme about Himmler's letters. In one Heini wrote that he hoped 'The Ancient One' would protect his wife and daughter. I wonder whom he had in mind. Presumably Nazi propagandists have as it were debased their national myths, a la swastika. In the circs it could prove tricky investigating that particular mythology.
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby TisILeclerc » 6:03 pm

Not forgetting the many private para military organisations like Blackwater who tout for business across the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi

Recent name change to Academi. Sounds rather benign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvRCSz0LjMM

'I'd have said these crusader-style orders were more like today's multinational and banking corporations. '

Or perhaps the Federal Reserve and IRS in America?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE8RtL3azDg
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby Boreades » 12:42 pm

TisILeclerc wrote:I imagine that the Norwegians would have had a greater input.


There are clues that the Norwegian Trade was quite distinct to Baltic Trade.

For example, Norn.

Not Nor'n Ireland, but Norn the language.

Norn, the mysterious 6th Scandinavian language that was spoken in Shetland, Orkney and part of Scotland until the 18-19th centuries, when it was replaced with Scots English.


http://nornlanguage.x10.mx/

Learn to speak Norn for only £120

A dictionary of an extinct language spoken only in the remote Scottish Highlands has been uncovered in an English charity shop. The two-volume Norn Dictionary was anonymously donated to the Willow Burn bookshop in County Durham, and with a price tag of £120 is the most valuable item to date handed into the shop.

Originally influenced by the Old Norse spoken by Norwegian settlers in the 8th Century, Norn gradually developed in the Northern Isles into its own distinctive language. The sheer scale of Norse settlement obliterated the Pictish language previously spoken in the Northern Isles, with Norn becoming the dominant language over the coming centuries. Interestingly Gaelic was never spoken in the islands, unless the language of Orkney’s Pictish inhabitants – the predecessors of the Norsemen – was variant, or precursor, to Gaelic.


http://www.scotclans.com/learn-to-speak ... -only-120/
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby Mick Harper » 1:04 pm

According to THOBR, Pictish is Scots Gaelic. There is no evidence that Pictish or Scots Gaelic (if they are different) was or was not spoken in Orkney and Shetland. Nobody knows. Nobody can know.

According to THOBR principles it is more than likely that Norwegian is the aboriginal language of Orkney and Shetland (they are as near Norway as they are to Ireland) and evolved into Norn in isolation (but I don't know enough about Norn to say).

However, since they are small islands with a small population it is perfectly possible that the original language-speakers were forced out/changed language as (it would seem) actually happened when English supplanted it in the 18th/19th centuries. cf English overcoming Norman French in the Channel Islands. But it is also possible that English itself was the aboriginal language of these islands.
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby TisILeclerc » 4:27 pm

It's said that Columba could understand some Picts but not others as they spoke another language.

He needed interpreters for one lot but not the other.

The question of who the Picts were could be tied in with who built the megaliths at Scara Brae etc. The Picts liked their standing stones. And Orkney was once much larger than it is today. Perhaps the people of that northern area were once part of a northern civilisation stretching across the north sea and spoke a common language. Or perhaps had a common trading language when needed?

It's only 229 miles from Shetland to Bergen. But about 500 to Dublin.

An interesting debate is on this site regarding the origin of the ogham script. From the middle east apparently and admitted so by early irish scholars.

'On the subject of Ogam itself, it is generally believed and stated that this script was invented in Ireland sometime in the 4th century by an erudite Irishman called Ogma, though the credit is sometimes given to a Gaulish God called Ogmios. Yet what is often overlooked is that ‘ogam’ is not an Irish word; it stems from an ancient Greek word ‘ogme’ meaning a groove. From it is derived the Greek word ‘ogmos’ meaning a straight line, specifically a straight ploughed furrow; it can also mean a row or a file, as in a line of people. Certainly the Greek words provide a pretty accurate description of this ancient script, but, if it were invented in the 4th century by the Irish, why would they use a Greek word to describe their own invention? The grooved base line for Ogam letters is not called an ogmos, it is called by a Gaelic word, ‘fleasg’, meaning a rod or wand, and the Gaelic word for a row or straight ploughed furrow is ‘scriob’. Surely either word would have served perfectly well instead of the Greek ogmos, itself derived from the Sanskrit word ‘Ag-m-as,’ which has an equivalent meaning.

Unpalatable as it may be for some, the evidence seems to show that Ogam was not invented in Ireland in the 4th century, but came originally from the Middle East, along with its distinctive name. Consider this:

The 12th century Irish ‘Auraicept na n-éces’ (the Scholars’ Primer), which is the work of several different hands, states in one section that Ogam was invented in Ireland. Yet it also states in another section, (Lines 1105 to 1106), that Gaelic and the Ogam script was invented in “the plain of Shinar” i.e. Sumer or Mesopotamia, and in another yet again, (line 251), in “Achaidh”, i.e. ‘Accad’, or ‘Akkad’, also in Sumer (Genesis ch.10 v.10.). It is widely acknowledged by scholars that this magnificent work is the principal authority on Ogam script, so why its conflicting claim for a Middle Eastern origin for Ogam should be generally ignored by so many academics is quite beyond this author.

According to Middle East historian L. A. Waddell, Ogamoid inscriptions have been found in Sumerian hieroglyphs dating from around 1000-1500 B.C. which show remarkable affinity with the Ogam alphabet used in inscriptions in Scotland, Ireland and Wales.'

http://www.thesonsofscotland.co.uk/rpappendixthree.htm


Oh, and another thing

'From the early 15th century on the Shetlanders sold their goods through the Hanseatic League of German merchantmen. The Hansa would buy shiploads of salted fish, wool and butter and import salt, cloth, beer and other goods.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetland
Last edited by TisILeclerc on 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby Mick Harper » 4:36 pm

It's said that Columba could understand some Picts but not others as they spoke another language.


I discovered the other day (Coast?) that the Latin for dove is columba. Why would Columba choose this peculiar name?
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby TisILeclerc » 4:38 pm

The world's full of Columbas and Columbuses sailing off to new lands and bothering the locals.
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby Mick Harper » 4:43 pm

I know it's not relevant but the author of the URL you directed us to, Tis, describes himself as a sculptor. If he is professionally involved in design, why would he design a site that is close to being visually unreadable? Answer: because he is a designer! These people just can't help themselves.
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby Mick Harper » 4:45 pm

The world's full of Columbas and Columbuses sailing off to new lands and bothering the locals


You'll have to explain this.
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby TisILeclerc » 5:21 pm

It's unreadable because he's a sculptor. It's the way they are.

http://www.thesonsofscotland.co.uk/Rex%20Pictorum.pdf

He's got a link to a pdf download which is readable.

The name Columba is quite similar to Columbus. Both of these dove like characters claimed to spread Christianity and peace although they were surrounded by violence, even Columba.

' Columba was educated at the monastic school of Moville under St Finnian, who had himself studied at St Ninian's "Magnum Monasterium" on the shores of Galloway. In 560 a dispute arose over a copy Columba had made of St. Finnian's book of psalms. The result was Columba's instigation of a rebellion by the Clan Neill against King Diarmait of Ireland. This culminated in the Battle of Cooldrevny in 561, at which three thousand men were killed.

Following the battle, Columba's confessor, St Molaise, set him the penance of leaving Ireland and preaching the Gospel in order to convert as many to Christianity as had been killed at Cooldrevny: and never again to look upon his native land. '

http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/u ... lumba.html

'Columbus spearheaded the transatlantic slave trade and has been accused by several historians of initiating the genocide of the Hispaniola natives. Columbus himself saw his accomplishments primarily in the light of spreading the Christian religion.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus
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