Megalithic shipping and trade routes

[Mick Harper]

Got it! Thanks, chaps. Also the site is up and running after a short snafu. There are continuing problems about being notified about posts. But we're on the job. So don't hold your breath.

[TisILeclerc]

There's an interesting quote in wiki regarding the Orkney islands, taken from the Historiae Norwegiae (16th century.

The Orkney's were populated by Papes and Pents.

Originally those islands were inhabited by Pents and Papes. Of these races, the Pents, only a little taller than pygmies, accomplished miraculous achievements by building towns morning and evenings, but at midday every ounce of strength deserted them and they hid for fear in underground chambers. [...]The Papes were so called on account of the vestments in which they clothed themselves like priests, and for this reason all priests are known as papen in the German tongue. However, as the appearance and letter forms of the books that they left behind them testify, they were from Africa and clove to the Jewish faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papar

It would appear to be that there was a 'race' of local people who worked their socks off building things, except for dinner times. And another 'race' of people who looked like priests because of the clothes they wore. Why didn't they say that they were priests?

I would imagine these people were the ones giving the orders and running things. But for the Norwegians to say that they were 'from Africa' and practised the Jewish faith means that they knew they weren't normal Christian priests and they knew their background. African and Jewish. No mention of Ireland there.

Here's a pdf link to the Historiae which should prove interesting.

http://www.vsnrweb-publications.org.uk/ ... Passio.pdf

There are frequent mentions of the Sinclair family who seem to have had a hand in its production or promotion.

[hvered]

That's fascinating...thanks, Tis.

I would imagine these people were the ones giving the orders and running things. But for the Norwegians to say that they were 'from Africa' and practised the Jewish faith means that they knew they weren't normal Christian priests and they knew their background. African and Jewish. No mention of Ireland there.

Carthaginians? They were said to have been expert sailors though not supposed to have got as far north.

[Boreades]

Bing bong! (that rings a bell)

In "Saints By Sea", by K.W.MacDonald, it mentions the School of Alexandria in Egypt.

Alexandria was for centuries a centre of learning. It was also a centre of Coptic Christianity in Egypt. We're told:

The Catechetical School of Alexandria is the oldest catechetical school in the world.
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_Or ... Alexandria

And

The Catechetical School of Alexandria is the oldest Catechetical School in the world. Soon after its inception around 190 A.D. by the Christian scholar Pantanaeus, the school of Alexandria became the most important institution of religious learning in Christendom. Many prominent bishops from many areas of the world were instructed in that school under scholars such as Athenagoras, Clement, Didymus, and the great Origen, who … wrote over 6,000 commentaries of the Bible in addition to his famous Hexapla. Many scholars such as Saint Jerome visited the school of Alexandria to exchange ideas and to communicate directly with its scholars. The scope of the school of Alexandria was not limited to theological subjects, because science, mathematics and the humanities were also taught there.
Ref http://www.stphilopateerchurch.co.uk/#!our-church/e5yny

Worthy of note is that the Coptic Church of Alexandria was (and is still) sending missionaries to Ireland and Wales.

It is known in the ecclesiastical history of the Church of Alexandria that the Church had sent missionaries in the 3rd or 4th century to the Celtic lands, especially monastics. It is also known within the Celtic tradition, especially in Ireland, that the foundation of the monastic system among the Celts was either based in portion on or inspired by the Egyptian monastic system, and there are many traces of Alexandrine theology embedded in Celtic theology.
Ref : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_Or ... ed_Kingdom

Although the Coptic Orthodox congregation has been present in Wales since the 1960s, the first Coptic Orthodox Church in Wales was consecrated in 1992 by Pope Shenouda III of Alexandria in the town of Risca, South Wales.

Ref : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_Or ... h_in_Wales
Ref : http://www.stphilopateerchurch.co.uk



Dig those black Coptic threads, man.

I've been meaning to ask the Church of Alexandria (or their representatives in Britain) if they know the names of any of the "missionaries in the 3rd or 4th century to the Celtic lands"

[TisILeclerc]

Didn't Pelagius die in Alexandria after being got at by the pope?

[hvered]

An 'Egyptian monastic system' doesn't ring any bells with me, unless you're thinking of the Essenes, a rather severe Jewish sect? At any rate Coptic Christians aren't Jewish. Nor are they 'African'.

[Boreades]

Didn't Pelagius die in Alexandria after being got at by the pope?

Apparently so.

[Boreades]

An 'Egyptian monastic system' doesn't ring any bells with me, unless you're thinking of the Essenes, a rather severe Jewish sect? At any rate Coptic Christians aren't Jewish. Nor are they 'African'.

No, not thinking of the Essenes.

I must have read it a different way:

The Papes were so called on account of the vestments in which they clothed themselves like priests, and for this reason all priests are known as papen in the German tongue. However, as the appearance and letter forms of the books that they left behind them testify, they were from Africa and clove to the Jewish faith.

Meaning, someone has had a look at " the appearance and letter forms of the books that they left behind " and decided "they were from Africa and clove to the Jewish faith".

Possibly a Norwegian Historian getting his exercise by jumping to conclusions?

[TisILeclerc]

The wording in the Historiae is thus:

We do not know at all where these people came from. On the other hand, the Papar got their name from the albs they wore, like clerics, for all clergy are called papæ in the Germantongue. There is moreover an island still today called Papey after them. It is seen, however, from the character and script of the books they left behind them that they were Africans who practised Judaism. When Haraldr hárfagri ruled in Norway some vikings of the kin of a very mighty prince,Rognvaldr, crossed the Sólund Sea with a large fleet, drovethe Papar from their long-established homes, destroyed them utterly and subdued the islands under their own rule.

http://www.vsnrweb-publications.org.uk/ ... Passio.pdf (page 56)

Here's an alb



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alb

It is simply the long, white linen tunic used by the Romans.

Post-Tridentine albs often were made with lace. Since then, this detail has fallen out of style, except in parts of the Anglo-Catholic movement and some very traditional Arab Catholic parishes.

The reference to Africa is clear in the Historiae and to Arabs in wiki. Although as can be seen they also mention Rome.

Could Alb be the root word for Alba (Scotland) or Albion (Britain as a whole)? The country where the rulers wore the Alb? Or perhaps the alb was named after the country?

Another possibility is that according to Iman Wilkens in Where Troy Once Stood places like Africa and Asia were based in Europe as was Libya. If that is true then the Historiae is merely describing people who had moved from another part of Europe. Otherwise it appears that the Romans used the term Africa to describe Libya.

http://www.troy-in-england.co.uk/trojan ... an-war.htm

http://science.jrank.org/pages/8198/Afr ... frica.html

[hvered]

When Haraldr hárfagri ruled in Norway some vikings of the kin of a very mighty prince, Rognvaldr, crossed the Sólund Sea with a large fleet, drove the Papar from their long-established homes, destroyed them utterly and subdued the islands under their own rule.

Sounds like a generic Holy War scenario. Could it be a re-telling of the Albigensian Crusade?