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Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

PostPosted: 9:57 am
by TisILeclerc
Here's an early gingerish immigrant to the Orkney islands.

Image ... d-23942934

Apparently it came from Belgium and was brought by farmers for some reason. Did they eat them or was it a stowaway?

This ties in with the latest findings about the origins of red deer in the Scottish islands.


The article has that amount of uncertainty that merits further funding. A speciality of experts.

They seem to think that the red deer in Orkney and the Utter Hebrides may have come from central Europe, or Belgium or somewhere else. But they appear not to be related to deer on the mainland.

So far they haven't mentioned the Norwegian area that was not covered in life and which supported ancient norwegian pine forests.

I'm waiting for the dialect experts to get started. They say that sparrows in various cities twitter with accents local to that city. Deer have a rather gravelly spitty kind of roar to them so it could be that they are related to the Flemish rather than sing song Norwegian types.

But the idea that Orkney was populated by Belgians is interesting. Perhaps the language of the Picts was Flemish. No wonder nobody could understand them.

St Andrew's University is also getting in on the Flemish bandwaggon with an analysis of Scottish Flemish families. Perhaps there is an innate sense within Scots that their origins are from the east rather than the west. The question is why would the early Belgians or later Belgians migrate north rather than come to England? Did the post conquest French show their normal hostility to the Flemish by chasing them north? And what is the connection between the Flemish Waffle and the Scotch Pancake?

Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

PostPosted: 2:20 pm
by TisILeclerc
Further to the above the Daily Mail is now running the article.

It appears that whoever brought these deer to the outer islands came from far away. The Mail suggests that they came from the Mediterranean.

If so could it be that the trading empire sailing from Norway round to the Med were stocking the islands with food?

They could have carried on their trading activities knowing that if stores were running low all they had to do was to pop over to the Uists or Lewis, or Orkney and do a bit of hunting and then they'd be ready for the next leg of their journey.

I can see farmers moving livestock short distances but it looks to me that the red deer were chosen specifically because they could survive in a hostile environment. Something ideal for the passing ships.

Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

PostPosted: 4:42 pm
by Boreades
Did the Dutch and Flemish trading empire habits last for millennia?

Vlissingen (Flushing) was a main harbour for ships of the Dutch East India Company (VOC).

The village of Flushing near Falmouth "was given its name by Dutch engineers from Flushing in the Netherlands who built the three main quays in the village" according to :,_Cornwall

Not sure why the Cornish (fairly good engineers in their own right) needed Dutch engineers to built some quays, but that's what the Wiki pages says. The old phrase "Falmouth for supplies" might be more relevant. Was the Dutch East India Company making sure they had one more secure resupplying point (on one of the key waypoints and safe harbours) for voyages around the British Isles?

Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

PostPosted: 10:41 am
by TisILeclerc
Dutch engineers were busy on the east coast as well 'flushing' the land of water. It's what the Dutch do. They build countries from sea water. Probably using skills gained when their ancestors splodged ashore when Doggerland sank.

' to flow or flood or cause to flow or flood with or as if with water' ... h/flushing

The article you link to from wiki tells us that the land was swampy.

'Originally named Nankersey, meaning valley of the reed swamp, the village was given its name by Dutch engineers from Flushing in the Netherlands who built the three main quays in the village.',_Cornwall

It would be handy for William the Orange later on to have Dutch friendly natives to welcome him ashore as well. Well, fairly nearby.

Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

PostPosted: 11:38 pm
by Mick Harper
Since 'flushing' is an English word, your argument would surely point to the English teaching the Dutch these skills. No doubt they sought out our expertise because they wished to apply it to their own waterlogged land. (We mainly used 'flushing' for the creation of salt marshes.)

Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

PostPosted: 2:41 pm
by TisILeclerc
I can't see why Cornish speaking Cornwall would use an English word to replace the Dutch name given to it Vlissingen.

Perhaps it sounded to them like Flushing or perhaps English speakers decided to English Vlissingen into Flushing. They did that in New Amsterdam when they changed the name to New York and Vlissingen to Flushing.

It's well known that the East Anglian Fens were drained by the Dutch against local opposition by English villagers and fishermen.

Perhaps the Dutch did import English hydraulic engineers at some point in the past. But we seem to have lost that skill. Which is why we sought Dutch expertise.,_Cornwall

'The handsome, green village of Flushing, just opposite the busy port of Falmouth has a slightly different feel to it, perhaps because it was settled by a Dutch community in the 17th century, who hailed from Vlissingen in Holland, also known as Flushing.'

I doubt whether Vlissingen in Holland is also known as Flushing to the Dutch. Only to the English.

Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

PostPosted: 11:13 am
by hvered
Generally speaking flushing's a hunting term, to flush (out) i.e. expose prey. Rather the opposite to drainage surely?

Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

PostPosted: 12:35 pm
by Boreades
Flushing can be both a hunting and drainage term.

e.g. in Chateau Boreades' organic recycling facilities (a.k.a. compost bins), we occasionally use the garden hose to flush out the rats from their tunnels under the compost. To the great excitement of our dogs, who stand all a-quiver in eager anticipation, waiting for the next half-drowned rodent to emerge and get instantly decapitated and dispatched.

Arr, get orf moi compost.

By the way, in case the Rat Protection Society is watching, please note this is much quicker and less painful than using poison on the rats. It's also a lot safer for the other animals, birds, hens, etc that wander round the garden.

Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

PostPosted: 9:41 pm
by Boreades
Ginger alert!

In previous posts, I was wondering why there are anomalous hotspots of Haplogroup R1b in Russia and Central Africa


I've just found that the Russian hotspot is one group of people, the Bashkirs, and they speak their own language.

The Central African hotspot remains unclear, but it seems to correlate with the Kanem–Bornu Empire ... rnu_Empire

Re: Celtic Wal/ Gal

PostPosted: 9:45 pm
by Mick Harper
Speakers of Bashkir mostly live in the Russian republic of Bashkortostan.

When is this wretched empire going to give its colonial peoples their independence?