Megalithic shipping and trade routes

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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby Boreades » 11:29 pm

Here's an interesting article on Devonian Limestone
https://www.devon.gov.uk/geo-devonianlimestone.pdf

As quarried at Cattewater and Mountbatten in Plymouth, which we already know for its Phoenecian connections.
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby spiral » 7:57 pm

Mick Harper wrote: However the word pen is not so straightforward. Yes, it is usually translated as headland (or some other prominent geographical feature away from the coast) but I am beginning to think it has a more rarefied meaning. Something like "megalithic marker'.


Even if we go with orthodoxy and say pen is "head", we are still forced to conclude your place name folks have in fact added the "land" bit, to make both themselves and your geographers very happy.

But of course what we really have had all along is not "headland" but simply "head."

And "head" can be interpreted many different ways.......
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby Boreades » 10:09 pm

spiral wrote:
Mick Harper wrote: However the word pen is not so straightforward. Yes, it is usually translated as headland (or some other prominent geographical feature away from the coast) but I am beginning to think it has a more rarefied meaning. Something like "megalithic marker'.

Even if we go with orthodoxy and say pen is "head", we are still forced to conclude your place name folks have in fact added the "land" bit, to make both themselves and your geographers very happy.

But of course what we really have had all along is not "headland" but simply "head."

And "head" can be interpreted many different ways.......


Like Pendennis Point near Falmouth
http://www.falriver.co.uk/things-to-do/ ... s-headland
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby spiral » 7:45 am

hvered wrote:I was wondering the other day about Portland Bill, the point marking the eastern end of Chesil Beach. Now it appears to have a 'twin' in Penestin in Brittany where the Mine d'Or cliffs are located

Image

The name is supposed to reflect the golden colour of the cliffs though one wonders why 'mine'. Penestin is on the 'tin route' though the name could be irrelevant since the French don't speak English comme il faut.

The spectacular coastline is rather similar to Chesil Beach and there's even a (very rocky) Pointe du Bile:

Image




Bill Bile Bal Bell......
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby hvered » 7:42 pm

St Michael and Mercury come together in Saint-Michel-Mont-Mercure in La Vendee, France. The hill is the highest point in the region and from here http://www.vendee-guide.co.uk/st-michel ... ercure.htm it's clear this site was in use long before a church was built (Mont Mercure is described as natural, naturellement).

The Romans, who had an observation post here, dedicated it to Mercury the god of merchants and thieves, while the Christians dedicated it to St.Michel, hence its name. There was a church here as early as the 12th century, which was replaced in the 19th century. On top of the church the huge bronze statue of the archangel St.Michel slaying a dragon with a 9 meter long sword, was placed there by helicopter. You can climb the bell tower (199 steps, 36 meters) to obtain a spectacular panoramic view over the whole of the Vendée as well as 4 other departments.


Recently I drew a line on Google Maps between San Sebastian, north Spain, and Etretat in Normandy and just noticed that St.Michel-Mont-Mercure is three miles west of this line. This doesn't prove anything really except such a prominent hill would certainly be a landmark and/or an observation point so one can assume an important route in the vicinity, reminiscent of Glastonbury Tor et al. on the Michael Line.
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby Boreades » 12:20 pm

Any mention of an observation post at a church on a hill should grab our attention.

For example: Carn Brea, St Just.
The most western hill in Cornwall. We are told that Chapel Carn Brea was ... the home of holy men or monks (and) a manuscript from 1396 kept at the County Records Office, Truro records the ′beaconage′ received from fishermen for burning an ′ecclesiastical light′, normally a brazier or fire basket.

How old was that tradition? Have we mentioned "beaconage" before? It certainly seems relevant to any discussion of ancient trade routes and how they navigated. As a subject in its own right, it seems elusive. I think we should start shining a light on it (sic).
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby macausland » 12:37 pm

I tried shining a light on it and checked the meaning of carn and brea in the online Cornish dictionary. I thought perhaps brea might refer to light.

It apparently means hill so presumably it would be the hill with the cairn on it.

But I then looked up 'karn' thinking it may relate to the name Kernow for Cornwall.

One of its meanings is 'hoof'. The plural being 'Karnow'.

Looking at the map of Cornwall it does look like a hoof at the end of a ham.

I don't know if this adds anything meaningful to the discussion or the meaning of life.
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby Boreades » 5:31 pm

Recently re-found, massive amounts of pottery stuff from Portugal, found in Plymouth, some on its way to Newfoundland.

Sarah Newstead – interesting biog
http://leicester.academia.edu/SarahNewstead

I expect there’s a few more gems in amongst the dross
http://www.academia.edu/Documents/in/An ... chaeology_

Plymouth Arch.Soc. is hosting a talk - 7th April 2014
NEWFOUNDLAND AND COD AND PORTUGUESE POTTERY
SITUATING PLYMOUTH IN THE EARLY MODERN NORTH ATLANTIC WORLD

Sarah Newstead is a PhD research student in the School of Archaeology and Ancient History at Leicester University. Her current research is focussed on the export of Portuguese coarsewares to England and Newfoundland. In her talk she will describe how Plymouth became an important port for the trade with Portugal and with the Newfoundland cod fishery. She will explain how the two facets are tightly linked and gave rise to the unusual Portuguese ceramics found in excavations around Sutton Harbour; these ceramics now form the spectacular collection in Plymouth City Museum – a resource for further research.

http://www.plymarchsoc.org.uk/archaeologylectures.html

I thought it was Brixham Trawlers that had the Newfoundland claim to fame? But anyway, here's another good example of old Phoenician trade routes, that just keep getting used. Heading north across the Bay of Biscay, with the Tower of Hercules to light their way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Hercules

If Portugese folks were willing to go all the way to Newfoundland just to get cod, no wonder some old maps show Ireland to be closer to Spain than Britain.

More work required on what Portugese folks = "Phoenicians"?

We're told here that
Basque fishermen from Spain used potatoes as ships' stores for their voyages across the Atlantic in the 16th century, and introduced the tuber to western Ireland, where they landed to dry their cod.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_potato

So Fish & Chips is a Basque/Breton invention?
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby macausland » 5:57 pm

A detailed account of early Basque fishing fleets sailing for the cod banks of Newfoundland can be found in Mark Kurlansky's book 'The Basque History of the World'.

They kept their journeys secret apparently to keep their fishing grounds to themselves.

Like the Portuguese they also have 'morris dances' with the usual beribboned outfits. Their flag looks remarkably like a copy of the Union Jack except for the colours which are red, white and green.
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Re: Megalithic shipping and trade routes

Postby Boreades » 8:26 pm

macausland wrote:They kept their journeys secret apparently to keep their fishing grounds to themselves.


Remarkably similar to the Phoenician tin traders.
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