Trade Secrets

[TisILeclerc]

Oh dear, sorry for being stupid. I'll have to find the sarcasm moji or whatever they're called.

Still, now that I know that the Roman Catholic church destroyed nothing and didn't take over I can sleep easier in my bed.

And no doubt Columbo the Irish detective priest didn't destroy the druids at Iona because they didn't exist and he didn't exist either.

And don't talk about snakes.

[Mick Harper]

Oh dear, sorry for being stupid. I'll have to find the sarcasm moji or whatever they're called.

Dinna understand. I don't recall imputing stupidity to anyone (leastways not to anyone here).

Still, now that I know that the Roman Catholic church destroyed nothing and didn't take over I can sleep easier in my bed.

Why not tell me what's wrong with my argument instead.

And no doubt Columbo the Irish detective priest didn't destroy the druids at Iona because they didn't exist and he didn't exist either.

Well, as you know, Iona is 'inch for inch the most excavated parcel of land in the known universe' and nothing remotely 'Columban' has ever been found. So, Hatty and I say that's prime facie evidence that there was nothing there. Indicate what's wrong with this argument.

And don't talk about snakes.

Dinna understand.

[hvered]

Yonah in Hebrew means dove. It sounds like Iona which is always linked with St Columba, columba being Latin for dove. That seems too odd to not mean something but I don’t know what.

There's no evidence of an early church on Iona but perhaps there was something else going on (as with Cuddy ducks over on the Farnes).

[hvered]

Wiki explains the (Latin) link between pigeon houses and burials thusly

A columbarium (pl. columbaria) is a place for the respectful and usually public storage of cinerary urns (i.e., urns holding a deceased's cremated remains). The term comes from the Latin "columba" (dove) and originally referred to compartmentalized housing for doves and pigeons called a dovecote.

When did doves become central in Christian iconography? It is generally acknowledged that pigeons had been domesticated back in the Neolithic ('ten thousand years ago' is suggested) and generally agreed (by us) that offshore islands were a nexus of some kind, part of long distance trade networks, where sea meets land.

Are there other "dove" islands that are otherwise rather useless? An offshore island might be ideal for housing and protecting pigeons but not obvious sites as burial places for humans. It's all a bit odd.

[Mick Harper]

Is the dove a Christian symbol? Noah uses one for the same purpose imputed to Christopher Columbus (a right pair of Megalithics) but do doves much appear'in the literature'? Apart from hanging around St Francis and suchlike routine iconography?

There is also the small matter of distinguishing doves from pigeons. Since modern taxonomy treats them all of a piece, I wonder why the ancients seem to draw such a very severe distinction. Not to mention everybody else -- I've never heard of doves being called 'flying rats'.

[hvered]

Pigeon is a young bird, 'especially a young dove', and 'probably from Latin', according to etymologists, unlike dove which is 'probably a native word'. Duvet (from French?) is presumably derived from dove, though officially it 'comes from down', i.e. young bird feathers.

The etymologists also say dove applied to all pigeons originally, old or young. Dove is so widespread it's difficult to tell where it originated. Just as useful in Muslim and Jewish circles as in Christian ones.

[TisILeclerc]

It seems like the dove has a very long history.

In ancient Mesopotamia, doves were prominent animal symbols of Inanna-Ishtar, the goddess of love, sexuality, and war.[1][2] Doves are shown on cultic objects associated with Inanna as early as the beginning of the third millennium BC.[1] Lead dove figurines were discovered in the temple of Ishtar at Aššur, dating to the thirteenth century BC,[1] and a painted fresco from Mari, Syria shows a giant dove emerging from a palm tree in the temple of Ishtar,[2] indicating that the goddess herself was sometimes believed to take the form of a dove.[2] In the Epic of Gilgamesh, Utnapishtim releases a dove and a raven to find land; the dove merely circles and returns.[3] Only then does Utnapishtim send forth the raven, which does not return, and Utnapishtim concludes the raven has found land

Aphrodite was also associated with doves.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doves_as_symbols

[Boreades]

In the Epic of Gilgamesh, Utnapishtim releases a dove and a raven to find land; the dove merely circles and returns.[3] Only then does Utnapishtim send forth the raven, which does not return, and Utnapishtim concludes the raven has found land

In this day & age, would Utnapishtim have a (sic) water-tight case against Noah for copyright infringement?

Gilgamesh observes that Utnapishtim seems no different from himself, and asks him how he obtained his immortality. Utnapishtim explains that the gods decided to send a great flood. To save Utnapishtim the god Ea told him to build a boat. He gave him precise dimensions, and it was sealed with pitch and bitumen. His entire family went aboard together with his craftsmen and "all the animals of the field". A violent storm then arose which caused the terrified gods to retreat to the heavens. Ishtar lamented the wholesale destruction of humanity, and the other gods wept beside her. The storm lasted six days and nights, after which "all the human beings turned to clay". Utnapishtim weeps when he sees the destruction. His boat lodges on a mountain, and he releases a dove, a swallow, and a raven. When the raven fails to return, he opens the ark and frees its inhabitants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh

[hvered]

On a recent visit to Abbotsbury swannery, I've learned that swans were not kept for eating purposes. Even cygnets, which are slightly less unpalatable, were only eaten out of necessity. They are oily and taste fishy, similar to seabirds which also reportedly taste disgusting. I expect the eggs are good though.

In more Megalithic mode, the first thing I noticed about the swannery was the embankment, as level and straight as a Roman agger. I thought it was a railway embankment but there's no railway line there. I defy anyone who says the causeway is not manmade. The swannery is at the eastern end of the Fleet lagoon which the bank protects -- clearly the water is intended to be brackish as there's a small channel to the sea, the only part of the lagoon not cut off from the sea.

[Boreades]

On a recent visit to Abbotsbury swannery, I've learned that swans were not kept for eating purposes. Even cygnets, which are slightly less unpalatable, were only eaten out of necessity. They are oily and taste fishy, similar to seabirds which also reportedly taste disgusting. I expect the eggs are good though.

Err, (head scratch icon) is that allegedly or from actual experience? The swan I've eaten (quite legally) was not oily or fishy at all. More of a gamey taste, somewhere between turkey and venison. But that was from free-range river swan, not Abbotsbury swan.

http://abbotsbury-tourism.co.uk/swannery/history/

What are they feeding them? Perhaps the Abbotsbury swans are eating too much cheap fishmeal?