Reverse engineering

[spiral]

Ortho Romano-British history says the Romans stopped around Exeter. But recent field work has found three Roman forts in Cornwall and West Devon.
1) Nanstallon, west of Bodmin
2) Restormel, near Fowey
3) Bere Ferrers, on the Devon side of the Tamar river

Tamar......orthodoxy would tell you

It is one of several British rivers whose ancient name is assumed to be derived from a prehistoric river word apparently meaning "dark flowing" and which it shares with the River Thames.

Of course the Thames itself divides implying that different parts of the river might have had different names. The Thames and the Isis. The Latin name was Tamesis. It looks like the two names added together (Tamesis).

If you shed the Wiki celtic explanations and as it were....don't go with the orthodox "dark flow" .....It does just look like "Tame" or "Tamed"

Note this might be consistent with Dam (T=D),....which according to orthodoxy is of "unknown origin",... and would also mean that Timber also starts to become clearer.

As in fact does tomb..........

Maybe.

[hvered]

The course of the Thames used to be further north according to geologists. It was pushed southwards by ice we are told which seems plausible enough though it's not clear if this is a one-off situation.

The Isis is where the Thames seems to change course most abruptly (it's pretty loopy), the two names merge at Dorchester and the Wittenham Clumps, a chalk outcrop which has no business being there geologically at least. The whole area has been tamed so why not the river.

[Mick Harper]

I continue my objection to the idea of 'tamed rivers'. The Thames was notorious, even as late as the nineteenth century, as being wholly unsuited to boats anywhere west of of the tidal limit at Teddington (then not a lock). It was such a national scandal that it led to various very expensive canal and canalised river schemes. In Megalithic times the Thames would merely have been a nuisance so far as long distance transort was concerned.

Of course if 'tamed' means "constantly being used for fulling mills, fishing weirs, animal fords etc" then I would withdraw my objection.

[spiral]

I continue my objection to the idea of 'tamed rivers'. The Thames was notorious, even as late as the nineteenth century, as being wholly unsuited to boats anywhere west of of the tidal limit at Teddington (then not a lock). It was such a national scandal that it lead to various very expensive canal and canalised river schemes. In Megalithic times the Thames would merely have been a nuisance so far as long distance tranport was concerned.

Of course if 'tamed' means "constantly being used for fulling mills, fishing weirs, animal fords etc" then I would withdraw my objection.

We tend to regard rivers as having one name, in fact they most probably had many, different stretches had different names. Single names came when rivers were mapped. Some river stretches were tamed, others not. It doesn't have to be transport, it could simply mean that they tamed in the sense of controlled or used the flooding. The canals in your example would be the last manifestation of this taming.

[spiral]

The course of the Thames used to be further north according to geologists. It was pushed southwards by ice we are told which seems plausible enough though it's not clear if this is a one-off situation.

The Isis is where the Thames seems to change course most abruptly (it's pretty loopy), the two names merge at Dorchester and the Wittenham Clumps, a chalk outcrop which has no business being there geologically at least. The whole area has been tamed so why not the river.

Maybe there is a link Ice, Isis, Ictis?

[Boreades]

I continue my objection to the idea of 'tamed rivers'. The Thames was notorious, even as late as the nineteenth century, as being wholly unsuited to boats anywhere west of of the tidal limit at Teddington (then not a lock). It was such a national scandal that it lead to various very expensive canal and canalised river schemes. In Megalithic times the Thames would merely have been a nuisance so far as long distance tranport was concerned..

I concur. If you look at the route of The Ridgeway, it avoids the Thames as long as it can, and then crosses at the narrowest part, around Goring. The Upper Thames Valley is, even now, after years of "flood defence work", still prone to flooding as it meanders across a wide and wet valley floor. No good at all for commercial or military traffic with markets to reach or orders to obey.

Back on the Tamar, it was never tamed. If you go to Morwellan Quay, the Quay Office still has markers on its wall that record the various flood levels in the last two hundred years. Some are at second-floor level.

[spiral]

I continue my objection to the idea of 'tamed rivers'. The Thames was notorious, even as late as the nineteenth century, as being wholly unsuited to boats anywhere west of of the tidal limit at Teddington (then not a lock). It was such a national scandal that it lead to various very expensive canal and canalised river schemes. In Megalithic times the Thames would merely have been a nuisance so far as long distance tranport was concerned..

I concur. If you look at the route of The Ridgeway, it avoids the Thames as long as it can, and then crosses at the narrowest part, around Goring. The Upper Thames Valley is, even now, after years of "flood defence work", still prone to flooding as it meanders across a wide and wet valley floor. No good at all for commercial or military traffic with markets to reach or orders to obey.

Back on the Tamar, it was never tamed. If you go to Morwellan Quay, the Quay Office still has markers on its wall that record the various flood levels in the last two hundred years. Some are at second-floor level.

Round here. We tame tigers, not puddycats......

Still each to their own.

[hvered]

Maybe there is a link Ice, Isis, Ictis?

In view of TME's proposed northern origins of Megalithics, it could be that islands were likened to ice bergs. Or perhaps the sea bird colonies and their guano reminded sailors of ice bergs. Either way the 's' in island is hanging on albeit silently.

[spiral]

Maybe there is a link Ice, Isis, Ictis?

In view of TME's proposed northern origins of Megalithics, it could be that islands were likened to ice bergs. Or perhaps the sea bird colonies and their guano reminded sailors of ice bergs. Either way the 's' in island is hanging on albeit silently.

Interesting.

BTW Spiral like Ajai earlier..... is sticking with the correct Iktin........or maybe Miktin. We really should stop using Ictis.

ictis, or iktin, is or was an island described as a tin trading centre in the bibliotheca historica of the sicilian-greek historian- 'diodorus referred to iktin in the accusative case, from which some commentators have deduced that the nominative case was iktis,

[Boreades]

Here's another "new" ancient site, at Ipplepen in Devon. After being discovered by metal detectorists after coins.

Ipplepen is on the high ground between the Dart and Teign rivers. The fieldwork says it ranges from the Bronze age through late Roman. Metal, slag and charcoal have been found, also slate. The relevance for us is that it was another metal-working and trading hub, from megalithic times onwards.

Wide Roman roads have also recently been found at Sandygate to the north-west side of Newton Abbot, and at Hackney Marshes.

Denbury Hill Fort and Milber Camp are nearby and would have similar roles.