Megalithic mapping

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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby Boreades » 10:48 pm

Heading back to one of the original questions (finding places of note far enough away from Avebury for astronomical measurements to be as accurate as possible)

At the moment, I'm stuck, but Jon might know the answer.
The question is, why is 21/29ths a significant fraction?

21/29ths = 58.9655 deg north
Within a megalithic stone's throw of the Standing Stones of Stenness and the Ring of Brodgar.

See: http://www.findlatitudeandlongitude.com ... .2&zoom=12

If MacLeclerc can find some more Silvia Sims soft porn to inspire me, I'd be most grateful.
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby Boreades » 11:20 pm

TisILeclerc wrote:Guichard ... is adamant that the names of all these locations are not French or Latin based and are found in all countries in Europe. They are pre Roman, pre Celtic and he claims that they are from a language dating back to the Stone Age


Umm, this is starting to sound like a children's riddle.
What is it that's very old, but not French, not Latin, not Roman, and not Celtic?
Groan, what's left?
I'm clutching at straws, but EOD/Mick syndrome is getting in the way. Who was it we were talking about a long time ago that reckoned a lot of northwestern mythology and names came from hunting deer and the like? She was something like a linguistic historian with a website under a pseudonym (because she didn't want to offend ortho-colleagues), and she was selling her house in France.

TisILeclerc wrote:It seems to me that these ancient map makers were everywhere and knew exactly what they were doing.


Agreed, but our challenge is to prove it.
Watson, the game's afoot!
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby Boreades » 9:34 pm

Boreades wrote:The question is, why is 21/29ths a significant fraction?
21/29ths = 58.9655 deg north
Within a megalithic stone's throw of the Standing Stones of Stenness and the Ring of Brodgar.


Or, to put it another way, why would 59/90ths be a significant fraction?
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby TisILeclerc » 10:36 pm

'If MacLeclerc can find some more Silvia Sims soft porn to inspire me, I'd be most grateful.'

Grrrr Borreee come 'ere.

Don't worry tis I Maclerc

Sylvia is ice cold in Alesia, do not worry, she 'as just left zee ice age and will take a long time to warm up Ah, ze fallen madonna wiz ze

Can't help you with the fractions I'm afraid. I could have sworn I had a half bottle of Chilean red left but it seems to have evaporated. I blame global warming myself.

Guichard is convinced that his theory is correct because amongst other things he believes the place names predate languages used in historical times. They are prehistoric. They may well have mutated into languages used today but the linguistic elements used for river names etc are not the same as what would be used in modern French. They are also found in other countries including England.

Macgregor of the fairy fire deer hunters was also involved in word chasing.

I'll re-read the chapter in Guichard where he discusses the various water names and post them here.

One thing I've noticed is that the Alesia people used the same method of map making seen in other very old maps. They pick a centre, draw a circle around it and then cut it into precise sections and then follow the extended lines. Rather like modern triangulation. Well, what they used to do if not now.

Your friend from Kent does the same thing but uses the zodiac and the passage of the sun through the year. He centres himself on Canterbury, uses that as the centre of the circle and then follows the zodiac drawing lines as he goes.

I'm sure he would find the wonderful Sylvia etched into the English landscape no problem.

Ah zee fallen madonna wiz ...
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby Boreades » 7:32 am

TisILeclerc wrote:Macgregor of the fairy fire deer hunters was also involved in word chasing


Aha!

http://aberfeldy.wikidot.com/

Mange tout, Rodney.
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby TisILeclerc » 4:05 pm

And mange this Rodders old chav.

Guichard suggests that the antiquity of the Alice, Alex, Alesia sites can be shown through the antiquity of placenames, especially river names.

His idea is that river names have roots that have no meaning in known European languages so must have been given by the earliest people in whatever language they spoke. He is particularly fond of rivers as he sees these as being fundamental to human culture, unlike mountains that tend to be barriers. Rivers have characters according to the landscape they run through and presumably the time of year and how rainy/snowy the weather is.

They are barriers and means of communication at the same time and of course provide life giving water and food. Etc.

He groups basic river name elements into three with these suffixes.

1. anius, anus (careful Borry), onus, enus and related femine forms ania, ona, ena

2. is, os, isius and isia (f)

3. ar, er, ur, with feminine ara, era, ura.

The first group are close to the Latin amnis, amnium which he says mean 'water course'. He argues however that they are not Latin as they are found in countries where Latin was not the local language.

Rhenus (Rhine) Rhodanus (Rhone) Sequana (Seine) Rhodanus apparently means Red River. Divona - Divine River

The third group give names to for example the following: Aar in Switzerland, Ara, Spain, Era -Italy, and the following, Ize, Izu, Izon, Izanne, Lize, Lisonne, Oze, Ozon, Osa, Ouse, Usse, Usa etc.

Some of the elements join together and have becoma the actual name of a river as with Is and Ar which give Isara - Isere in France, Yser in Belgium, Isar, - Bavaria, Iser - Bohemia, Iseritz - Silesia. the lower Danube is the Ister.

Variations can occur, Isara becomes Oise.

The only mountain name he accepts as it occurs in various forms across Europe is one based on 'Or'. All the rest are specific to local languages such as Benn, Penn, Mount etc.

From 'Or' we get Oros, Ora, Gora, Hora, Jora, Jura. These exist in one form or another all over Europe.

In a similar manner he excludes most place names except for those connected with Burgos, Burgium, Purgos, Brig etc.

Likewise Antium, Antio, Antia, Alesia, Alisia, Alizia Alesio.

By excluding everything with a known linguistic origin he hopes to show that the Alesias and related places are related to each other through a prehistoric linguistic origin. This also excludes 'false positives'.

It's also interesting to see on the diagonal south west to north east lines connecting the Alesias through France a similar trajectory to the Michael Line from Cornwall to East Anglia.

Other placenames connected with the Alesias are the previously mentioned Calais, Calet, Cales, Calis, Alion, Ales, Alyson, Alix, Elise, Laizy, Luzy, Mion, Myon, Millon, Versailles, Verseilles, Verceil etc.

These may be corruptions of the original name or may mean that they have a certain relationship with an Alesia. Mion, Myon etc could refer to a central position.
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby hvered » 4:40 pm

The first group are close to the Latin amnis, amnium which he says mean 'water course'. He argues however that they are not Latin as they are found in countries where Latin was not the local language.

'Maim' in Hebrew = water.

The only mountain name he accepts as it occurs in various forms across Europe is one based on 'Or'. All the rest are specific to local languages such as Benn, Penn, Mount etc.

From 'Or' we get Oros, Ora, Gora, Hora, Jora, Jura. These exist in one form or another all over Europe.

'Har' in Hebrew = mountain.

2. is, os, isius and isia (f)

The second group seems welnigh universal. 'Uisge beatha', the water of life according to Scots.
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby spiral » 9:56 am

unlike mountains that tend to be barriers.


Seems to me hills and mountains aid communication. Landmarks, beacons, visibility, safe high ground and so on.

The real bugger for communication is dense woodland........
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby Boreades » 11:17 am

TisILeclerc wrote:He groups basic river name elements into three with these suffixes.

1. anius, anus (careful Borry), onus, enus and related femine forms ania, ona, ena

2. is, os, isius and isia (f)

3. ar, er, ur, with feminine ara, era, ura.



Does he mention Isis (Thames)?
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Re: Megalithic mapping

Postby TisILeclerc » 1:59 pm

Does he mention Isis (Thames)?


Not as such but I think we can take it that it is included because of the 'is' element. I would argue that the 'es' in Thames which I think was once 'Tamis' is also included.

In the longitude map he has developed with the 0degree based on Alesia the sixth line to the west passes through Lewes and touches the eastern part of London. A bit close to Greenwich I imagine.

It looks to me that Isis, 'is' doubled, is a variation on his other point about 'is' and 'er' which gives rise to river names such as Isere etc.

As Hvered pointed out 'is' is also an element of 'uisge' Gaelic for water. Interestingly Gaelic also has 'eas' for various water features such as waterfall.

It may be worthwhile examining river names and names of other features in Britain to see if the theory holds up.

For example he gives us an element related to mountains 'or' 'gor' etc.

Perhaps this is contained within Cairn Gorm in Scotland. This is the mountian that gives us the modern name for the full range.

Here's a quote from Watson on Wiki:

'Usually referred to as The Cairngorms—this 'modern' use of Cairn Gorm to represent the whole range is potentially misleading—Watson (1975) refers to it as a nickname explaining that the range's former name is Am Monadh Ruadh—the red hills distinguishing them from Am Monadh Liath—the grey hills to the west of the River Spey.

If you look from Aviemore on a clear evening, the granite screes of Lairig Ghru and Braeriach do glow a warm red in the sun. The name Am Monadh Ruadh still lives among the oldest folk of Strath Spey, but long ago, outsiders had replaced it with 'the Cairngorms', on maps and in guide books
—Watson (1975) '

'Gorm' means blue or dark green. Grass is always 'gorm' rather than 'uaine' another word for green. Hence Blue Grass Mountains etc.

As the extract explains the proper Gaelic name for the mountain range is Am Monadh Ruadh, so why the use of Gorm?

It could be because Cairn Gorm itself is blue from a distance. Or could it be because 'Gorm' in this instance means blue by association. 'Gorm' in this case is the original prehistoric mountain word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairngorms
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