[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 488: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4762: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3897)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4764: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3897)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4765: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3897)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4766: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3897)
• View topic - New Views over Megalithia

New Views over Megalithia

Current topics

Re: New Views over Megalithia

Postby Mick Harper » 3:27 pm

1. You'll have to explain how an enclosed tor is different from an unenclosed one (I'd never heard of such a thing)
2. You will have to explain what is a tor and what isn't a tor before we can start enclosing and dis-enclosing them.
3. Since the two in Devon are presumably the most easterly of all enclosed tors, and one is 'special', you'll have to find out what's special about the other one, unless not being special is what's so special about it.
4. While you're down there you had better check out whether there is any relationship between enclosed tors and river confluences since you mentioned it.
Mick Harper
 
Posts: 911
Joined: 10:28 am

Re: New Views over Megalithia

Postby PeterC » 11:20 am

Brilliant questions, living daily amongst these things I forget everyone’s consciousness isn’t filled with granite in various arrangements.

‘Hill’ is a basic translation for tor, but really we are looking at a Rocky outcrop, often elevated, but not necessarily. Many outcrops here still don’t get the name tor and nor do some hills with outcrops get blessed with the name (for instance the Dewerstone is not known as Dewerstone Tor). But nevertheless a high point of moor with granite outcrop(s) is quite safely known as a Tor. And I thought that would be the easy question to answer….

The ‘enclosing’ part is accepted by archaeologists to be some of the earliest Neolithic constructing/earthworking and as important to the culture as the ‘causewayed enclosures’. How this conclusion is drawn I don’t know because I still don’t think anyone has a good idea what a causewayed enclosure was for anyway. For more information on this type of Neolithic construction consult the internet not me.

Depending on the shape of the Rocky outcrop it is ‘enclosed’ by stone and earth wall up to 4m high (Stowe’s Hill on Bodmin has a teardrop shape wall around the entire outcrop, the Dewerstone, with escarpments on two sides, just has a third side built up enclosing the outcrop). I believe only a few have been properly excavated and even then possibly not since the '20s. Some show occupation and some don’t, like many Neolithic sites, the purpose seems unclear.

Some of Cornwall’s tors seem to be on the Michael Line including the previously mentioned Stowes tor (the famous Cheesewring) with a Craddocks Moor stone circle only a stone's throw (sorry) further south west down the line.
Being pretty much all on moorland it is unsurprising many of these sites are associated with mining or quarrying.

As for the other Devon enclosed Tors I only know a small amount. One is Hound Tor rocks (not my side of the moor) and Whittor or White Tor near Brentor. Although not on either the Michael line or the proposed line they sit on high points on the edge of the moor, very useful if you want to avoid or get off the moor. Seeing as people still struggle now to navigate Dartmoor today, big beacon towers at any of these points would be pretty useful. Being at the edge of the moor and on high places they often overlook river valleys, so possibly the confluence is a nice bonus rather than the aim…

Now for some possibly meaningless observation - seemingly Brentor, Whittor, Merrivale monument and Walkhampton church make a nice semi circle surrounding the lower ground of which Tavistock sits in (an important stannary town for centuries and site of a Norman abbey)

On a personal note I do not believe Merrivale is Dartmoor’s Carnac. You’d have to be a blindly proud Devonian or a cynical and literally blind Breton to draw that conclusion. It has an array of different yet small monuments and the double stone rows, although very pretty, are fairly underwhelming (if not minuscule compared to Carnac) in scale of stones and the overall monument. Having an array of monuments seems to suggest to me that Merrivale had an array of uses but what they are is currently beyond me. Some archeoastronomy has been carried out in the book Dartmoor Sun, which is not a book I set much store by. But I’ll leave that up to the readers.

I believe some people are currently working on some film there exploring the plague market idea; notes for ME2, Merrivale is 5 miles from Tavistock but it is fact surrounded by farms rather than nowhere near them.
PeterC
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 9:40 am

Re: New Views over Megalithia

Postby hvered » 12:59 pm

hvered
 
Posts: 855
Joined: 10:22 pm

Re: New Views over Megalithia

Postby Mick Harper » 1:02 pm

Mick Harper
 
Posts: 911
Joined: 10:28 am

Re: New Views over Megalithia

Postby PeterC » 2:15 pm

Worry not, I don’t find this questioning annoying at all, rather it tells me to put more effort into scrawling into a dialogue box. Although as a dyspraxic trying to type on a mobile phone that keeps ‘correcting’ me, you will have to attempt to capitalise on my contribution whether my capitalisation is consistent or not.

You are damn right about Tor/tower. But yes in a modern sense it is a natural hill with a natural rock formation on top to a greater or lesser degree of impressiveness.

Enclosed tor. Tor with a wall built around it, what more can I say? I fall back on the fabulously vague nomenclature of archaeologist on describing something they know nothing about because frankly, no one else has any language to deal with these things. If this does not help still a google image search of an enclosed tor might help the imagination even if a search of causewayed enclosures won’t. The additional information of habitation and excavation was merely to try and flesh out this particular scrawny bird.

I agree Tors themselves aren’t great landmarks as there are many in the landscape, but a tor with a big fire on top, throwing up smoke signals would be easy to pick out. If we think of those great megalithics in Chaco canyon, USA and the dead straight roads marked by natural buttes with evidence of large fires atop, a leyline with a tor and protected fire is not a big jump.

Some of the enclosed Tors are disputed but from a map of someone’s dissertation what I nicked, 6 sit on the Michael line; carn brae, st stephens beacon, Helman Tor, Berry down, Treggarick, Stowes Pound and Notter.

On Dartmoor it’s hard not to associate any occupation with mining and quarrying and that’s largely true of Bodmin too - and I’m sticking by that generalisation. A simple mile jaunt will have you tripping over industrial archeology (from a range of periods) every minute, the only thing more common is animal droppings which you can’t move for.

Yes the Tavistock/Merrivale/Princetown road does slice the moor into two east west pretty perfectly (and a straight pretty straight line too, definitely not Roman!)
PeterC
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 9:40 am

Re: New Views over Megalithia

Postby Mick Harper » 5:08 am

Mick Harper
 
Posts: 911
Joined: 10:28 am

Re: New Views over Megalithia

Postby Mick Harper » 5:23 am

Mick Harper
 
Posts: 911
Joined: 10:28 am

Re: New Views over Megalithia

Postby hvered » 12:56 pm

hvered
 
Posts: 855
Joined: 10:22 pm

Re: New Views over Megalithia

Postby Mick Harper » 2:01 pm

Well, hang on there a mo. I didn't realise Merrivale is slap bang on the road that runs straight through the middle of this megalithic zone, next to the main burg. Why the hell else to site it there if it isn't the man distribution centre? As for Carnac, I know nothing of the difficulties of which you speak, but why have it next to the sea, halfway between the top and bottom of the megalithic limits and adjacent to a prime megalithic port, if it isn't a main distribution point?

Too many coincidences for them not being prima facie candidates.
Mick Harper
 
Posts: 911
Joined: 10:28 am

Re: New Views over Megalithia

Postby Boreades » 11:27 pm

Boreades
 
Posts: 2085
Joined: 2:35 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Index

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests