Trade Secrets

[Boreades]

I'm sure that Buddhist monks aren't supposed to say 'dang'.

Quite right, they usually say "dong".

[TisILeclerc]

' Much as I admire most of Robert Lomas books and articles, I think he lost the plot on this explanation for the Megalithic Yard. Hand-made pendulums is not a very rigorous or exact method, as would be expected for something derived from astronomical observation. '

Ah Borry mon brave you are a man of sterner stuff than Blue Peter.

Ah zink zis iz what you are looking forr


http://members.tripod.com/hew_frank/id19.htm

Eet as many obscure cymbals zat zee Gestapo weel not know about. But we trust in you. And eet all adds oop.

[Boreades]

Ah Borry mon brave you are a man of sterner stuff than Blue Peter.

Ah zink zis iz what you are looking forr

http://members.tripod.com/hew_frank/id19.htm

Eet as many obscure cymbals zat zee Gestapo weel not know about. But we trust in you. And eet all adds oop.

Ah mon ami Leclerc,
Good moaning.
Does your dog bite?
Do you have a leecaunce for the minkee?

[Boreades]

Ah zink zis iz what you are looking forr
http://members.tripod.com/hew_frank/id19.htm

Hugh Franklin's site is most excellent indeed.
But for poor megalithic muppets (like us) it doesn't have a clear explanation of how relative dimensions translate into an absolute linear measure.
For example,
http://members.tripod.com/hew_frank/id19.htm
Circumference / M = 4 SS = 2.720699046
But it doesn't clearly explain why that's one foot.

[hvered]

I notice that the town of Albi is in the Lozere region. Albi was at the heart of the Cathar religion. Perhaps a re-examination of Cathar beliefs would be worthwhile. Could it be that the secret they took to the bonfire with them was connected to the ancient map making and allied trades?

The war known as the Albigensian Crusade (that lasted twenty years) points to Albi as being of special interest. The Normans who were always on the side of orthodox Catholicism had a particular interest in French trade routes and presumably the Lozere area, including Albi, got in the way.

The Norman, or Anglo-Norman, extermination of the Cathars has some resonances with the Roman campaign against the Druids but the Cathars don't seem to have had a reputation for learning a la Druids. On the other hand they're usually described as being a gnostic sect which implies some kind of esoteric knowledge. Ironically, St Dominic who founded the Dominican Order as a consequence of the Cathar heresy is the patron saint of astronomy. History written by the victors?

[Boreades]

St Dominic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Dominic

In 1215, Dominic established himself, with six followers, in a house given by Peter Seila, a rich resident of Toulouse.

Later, during the Cathar Revolts, Count Raymond VII of Toulouse fled to England (probably via La Rochelle)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade

By the 12th century, more organized groups of dissidents, such as the Waldensians and Cathars, were beginning to appear in the towns and cities of newly urbanized areas. In western Mediterranean France, one of the most urbanized areas of Europe at the time, the Cathars grew to represent a popular mass movement, and the belief was spreading to other areas.

La Rochelle in time became the centre for the Huguenot (French Protestants) and wars that lasted decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Wars_of_Religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_La_Rochelle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huguenot_rebellions

The French (Catholic) Kings clearly didn't like the ideas of the Waldensians, Cathars and Huguenots.

[hvered]

I've started reading a history of so-called heresy that begins by pointing out an odd gap, of 500 - 600 years, between the persecutions at the end of the Roman empire and the next round of persecutions. It seems far more likely that the chronology is out and that the gap, corresponding to the 'Dark Ages', doesn't exist.

The Cathars were clearly not heretics but religious fundamentalists [no meat, no sex, no joy], funded by local nobles and minor royalty presumably for political reasons. they seem to have operated much like Al-Quaida cells and the Albigensian Crusade was the shock and awe response.

[TisILeclerc]

hvered:
'The Cathars were clearly not heretics but religious fundamentalists [no meat, no sex, no joy], funded by local nobles and minor royalty presumably for political reasons. they seem to have operated much like Al-Quaida cells and the Albigensian Crusade was the shock and awe response.'

A bit like the Catholic church then which also banned sex, joy, and meat on Fridays.

Perhaps it's a feature of the three desert religions that we must lead lives of misery and do as we are told.

On the other hand much of what they taught has echoes of Buddhism with an attempt to escape from worldly life and 'material' existence.

Much of what they believed is said to have been based on previous dualistic religions. They posed a threat to the Catholic church not only in core beliefs like the rejection of the virgin birth, the trinity etc. but also by the fact that they would not be manipulated, which is for the most part what religion is about.

'

In those days there came to England certain erring folk of the sect commonly thought to be called Publicans. These seem to have originated in Gascony under an unknown founder, and they spread the poison of their infidelity in a great many regions; for in the broad lands of France, Spain, Italy, and Germany so many are said to be infested with this pestilence that, as the Psalmist of old complained, they seem to have multiplied beyond number

... When they were questioned systematically upon the articles of holy faith, they answered correctly enough on the nature of the Celestial Physician, but as to the remedies by which He deigns to heal human infirmities - that is, the divine sacraments - they gave the wrong replies. They scorned holy baptism, the Eucharist, and matrimony, and with wicked rashness they disparaged the Catholic unity which these divine aids instil.

...They laughed at threats uttered in all piety against them in the hope that through fear they might be brought to their senses, and misapplied the word of the Lord "Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice's sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven". Thereupon, the bishops, taking precautions lest the heretical poison should spread more widely, publicly denounced them as heretics and handed them over to His Catholic Highness for corporal punishment. He commanded that the brand of heretical infamy be burned on their brows, that they be flogged in the presence of the people, and that they be driven out of the city. And he strictly enjoined anyone from presuming to give them shelter or offer them any comfort. When the sentence had been declared, they were led away, rejoicing in their just punishment, their master leading them jauntily and chanting "Blessed are ye when men shall revile you". ... Then the detestable group were branded on the brows, and suffered a just severity - as a mark of his primacy he who was their leader receiving a double brand on brow and chin. Stripped of their clothing to the waist and publicly flogged with resounding blows, they were driven out of the city, and perished miserably in the bitter cold, for it was winter and no one offered them the slightest pity.'

'The quotation is from William of Newburgh's history of the Kings of England, written around 1199-1201: Willelmi Parvi, canonici de Novoburgo, historia rerum anglicarum 1. xiii ed. by Richard Howlett, in Chronicles of the Reigns of Stephen, Henry II and Richard I (Rolls Series, LXXXII [4 vols, London, 1884-1889] I 131-34). English translation from Wakefield and Evans, Heresies of the High Middle Ages, 40 (pp 245 - 247).'

http://www.cathar.info/cathar_beliefs.htm


Al qaeda they are not. The idea that 72 virgins await them in paradise would fill them with horror, as would murdering fellow human beings.

[hvered]

A bit like the Catholic church then which also banned sex, joy, and meat on Fridays.

Not that much difference between the two perhaps, though in Puritan England people minded the bans on 'singing and dancing' which suggests a measure of jollity if not on Fridays had been allowed.

Was this sect or movement that considered itself 'pure' so popular because it endorsed disobedience? They may not have been a terrorist organisation a la Al Quaeda but when armed they were certainly dangerous.

[TisILeclerc]

The people were certainly allowed to enjoy jollity.

There was a book written a few years ago which argued that people had a better life in the Middle Ages with more holidays and fewer working hours than we do today. We've just passed one of them and there are a few more to come.

Something the Puritans didn't like at all. If we want Al Qaeda, look no further. They even shot their own supporters once they had the upper hand.

Basically it's all about we say, you do, and we eat.

The Cathars were different, perhaps. But they didn't call themselves Parfaits. They weren't perfect at all. Which is the main point. Life was a battle in a Satanic world to achieve perfection.

As for being armed and dangerous. Were they really? When they went to the final bonfire they were singing. They offered very little resistance to the real Satan worshippers.

The danger they offered was in thought. And with a monotheistic religion bent on control, that can not be allowed.

And with Cromwell, (aka Williams) we could all eat mince pies again and heave a sigh of relief.

Life on Jollity Farm.