Megalithic shipping and trade routes

[Mick Harper]

Remind me what an oratory is. I once taught at the London Oratory -- but that seemed kinda different. Amazing stuff, Tissie. It's a shame that Mackie holds such sway in these parts because while he is certainly on the fringes of orthodoxy (I once shared a platform with him at Glastonbury) he is not even on the fringes when it comes to un-orthodoxy.

[TisILeclerc]

Oratory?

Well, an Orra loon is an Aberdeenshire farm labourer. Often taken on for a short time for a fee.

So if Oratory were spelled Orra Tory I would imagine it's a hopeful politician knocking on doors in the Aberdeenshire countryside looking for unskilled work for a fee.

Or, I could check my dictionary and confirm that it is indeed a chapel. Usually small. I believe that country gentlemen and suchlike had them built into their own mansions. It could also be a society of Catholic priests without vows.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/oratory

[Mick Harper]

A tory is a 'pirate' from the megalithic island of Raithlin just across the water. (Adopted by Whigs in the seventeenth century as a term of abuse directed towards their opponents.)

[TisILeclerc]

Cattle rustlers really

[hvered]

Why say oratory rather than chapel? Perhaps the term is time-related. In Spanish ora ... ora is used to mean now ... now, probably a short form of ahora (hora with a silent 'h' meaning hour).

Orar in Spanish = to pray. In medieval England prayer books were sometimes Books of Hours.

The other meaning of oratory, the art of speaking from a pulpit, might be distantly related to tide-watchers/land-based pilots?

The location of the London Oratory always seems a bit odd. London is connected to time-keeping though Brompton Road isn't associated with Greenwich as far as I know.

[TisILeclerc]

Is it from 'ear' though? We have oral and aural in English and Oratory is given as a place of prayer before anything else in most dictionaries.

The Etymological online gives this for 'orator'.

orator (n.) Look up orator at Dictionary.com
late 14c., "one who pleads or argues for a cause," from Anglo-French oratour (Modern French orateur), from Latin orator "speaker," from orare "to speak, speak before a court or assembly, pray, plead," from PIE root *or- "to pronounce a ritual formula" (source also of Sanskrit aryanti "they praise," Homeric Greek are, Attic ara "prayer," Hittite ariya- "to ask the oracle," aruwai- "to revere, worship"). Meaning "public speaker" is attested from early 15c.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?ter ... in_frame=0

The Hittite 'to ask the oracle' may be close. Isn't that what the Oracles at Delphi and elsewhere were in reality, Hermitages where people went for advice?

Perhaps the Oracle had a Coracle if he needed to travel. Or she of course.

And Oratory is:

oratory (n.2) Look up oratory at Dictionary.com
"small chapel," c. 1300, from Old French oratorie and directly from Late Latin oratorium "place of prayer" (especially the Oratory of St. Philip Neri in Rome, where musical services were presented), noun use of an adjective, as in oratorium templum, from neuter of Latin oratorius "of or for praying," from orare "to pray, plead, speak" (see orator).

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?all ... ch=oratory


Of course there is a duality involved. Speech and prayer assumes a listener or listeners.

[TisILeclerc]

What a difference a letter makes.

Oran in gaelic is of course 'song'. Perhaps the hermits sang to pass the time away in their oratory?

But there are a number of islands that are called Orosay or Oronsay. And one thing they appear to have in common is that they are tidal islands with a causeway. I haven't checked them all yet but once the grant comes in I will get my feet wet and explore.

One such is Orosay off South Uist. It has an alternative name 'Doirlinn'. There's that Dor element which also occurs all over sometimes as Dur.

NF71NW 5 7302 1734.
(NF 7302 1734) Between the Island of Orosay, about 3/4 mile west of South Boisdale, South Uist, and the shore there is a smaller tidal islet, about 50 yards long and 20 yards broad, which seems to have been surrounded by a slight wall. A massive causeway 120 yards long and 9 to 12ft wide, formed of large blocks of stone, connects it with the mainland

https://canmore.org.uk/site/9797/south-uist-an-doirlinn

A quick check of Doirlinn in Dwelly and we get:

dòirlinn /dɔːRLʲɪNʲ/
boir. gin. -e, iol. -ean
1 tidal causeway 2 tidal island (that can be reached via a tidal causeway or wading over an isthmus)

http://faclair.com/

A bit more information from Dwelly or Faclair.com as it is now in the online version gives a bit more information of a few of them.

Orasaigh /ɔrəsaj/
fir. neo-ath.
1 Oronsay (Skye; Highld) 2 Orosay (W Isls) 3 Orsay (Islay; Ag&B) 4 Orinsay (W Isls)

fadhail aig Orasaigh
the (natural) ford to Oronsay

Wiki gives us one off Colonsay.

Oronsay (Scottish Gaelic: Orasaigh, pronounced [ˈɔɾəs̪aj]), also sometimes spelt and pronounced Oransay by the local community, is a small tidal island south of Colonsay in the Scottish Inner Hebrides with an area of 543 hectares (1,340 acres)

The island rises to a height of 93m (305 feet) at Beinn Orasaigh and is linked to Colonsay by a tidal causeway (called An Traigh (The Strand)) consisting of sands and mud flats

Lots of stone age stuff and apparently Columba landed here when he was on the run from Ireland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oronsay,_Inner_Hebrides

Wiki gives an extensive list of islands with this name. And tells us that it's from the Norse for tidal or ebb island. So we have two words Orosay or Duirlinn which both mean the same thing. Tidal island.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_i ... ed_Oronsay

Not to be outdone by South Uist Barra has four of them although North Uist has even more. So they seem to be a very common feature and nearly always associated with churches of one kind or another. And prehistoric stufff.

[Boreades]

What a difference a letter makes.

Oran in gaelic is of course 'song'. Perhaps the hermits sang to pass the time away in their oratory?.

I wouldn't be at all surprised. In fact, it's easier to memorise many things that have a tune to go with them. The words alone are harder work. This being the key purpose of song lines as an aide-memoire for navigators with an oral tradition.

http://www.ancient-origins.net/history- ... lia-005398

If it's really valuable, don't write it down.

I shall sing this only once.

[Mick Harper]

There's that Dor element which also occurs all over sometimes as Dur.

Just in case we haven't got enough hares chasing each other, I came across another whole new world when looking up the etymology of Durdle Dor and came across this https://infogalactic.com/info/Durdle_Door. Blimey, a fruitcake Wiki, something I was asking for just the other day. Seek, and it will already be there. Anybody browsed this yet? I daren't.

Anyway the point is this Durdle Dor is explained as 'a drilled door' which is of course our position since we regard sea arches as Megalithic. Orthodoxy says they are natural geological formations. Now 'door' is good for tidal islands generally since they are open some of the time (tide's out) and sometimes closed (tide's in) but it still doesn't solve our age-old quest to discover what the hell tidal islands are for.

We have though pretty much established they are megalithic constructions (orthodoxy says they are -- all! -- natural geological formations). When are these people going to bow down before us?

[hvered]

A quick check of Doirlinn in Dwelly and we get:

dòirlinn /dɔːRLʲɪNʲ/
boir. gin. -e, iol. -ean
1 tidal causeway 2 tidal island (that can be reached via a tidal causeway or wading over an isthmus)

When you've done the Doirlinns, Tisi, can you check up on the Tarberts

Places named Tarbert are characterised by a narrow strip of land, or isthmus. This can be where two lochs nearly meet, or a causeway out to an island.