Megalithic mapping

[Mick Harper]

Open your eyes and everything disappears in my experience.

[Boreades]

its second element is accepted to derive from Old Norse bjarg ('rock');

Well, berg is the most common suffix in northwest Europe (and means ‘an enclosed space’) so only a place name crackpot would conclude it was something else. Though it might be, neither of us knows for sure.

Doh! You've just got the context wrong.
It's bjarg not burgh.
Like an iceberg is a bjarg = something very hard and rock-like that will sink you if you sail into it.
You wouldn't come to much harm sailing into a burgh. Unless the inhabitants were unfriendly.

Open your eyes and everything disappears in my experience.

Careful now!
You shouldn't let people conclude you live in a dream world divorced from reality.
Unless it's good for the book sales?

[Mick Harper]

Thanks, Borry (and thanks too from Tissie) but I think your nautical enthusiasms might have got the better of you. I doubt that there was much danger of collision with Roseberry Topping in Norse times. The pace of life was appreciably slower then. But, yes, Roseberry Topping is hard, stony etc (probably, I've never been up it) and may be a bjarg. Or it may be an enclosed space (we have previously speculated on its origin and use) and hence a berg. As I say, we just don't know. But it's a comfort that you and the place-name theorists know.

In case you missed it, the 'open eyes' was a reference to the Applied Epistemological principle "The truth is always boring". In other words all kinds of fanciful explanations get hurled around because that's the way we human beings like it but the more extravagant, and oft-times even the less extravagant, explanations tend to dissipate after a more sober appraisal.

[Boreades]

I doubt that there was much danger of collision with Roseberry Topping in Norse times.

That's true, not even on a spring high tide with an offshore wind behind you. But I detect a little logistical ploy to try and distract us. Nobody is suggesting anyone sailed a ship up Roseberry Topping.

But, yes, Roseberry Topping is hard, stony etc (probably, I've never been up it) and may be a bjarg. Or it may be an enclosed space (we have previously speculated on its origin and use) and hence a berg. As I say, we just don't know. But it's a comfort that you and the place-name theorists know.

I think you mean you don't know, which comes as a surprise, you always used to be more certain about this kind of thing. Others of us have been up Roseberry Topping bjarg, and have also been in many of the megalithic enclosed spaces (burghs). We can tell the difference. There's no enclosed space on top of Roseberry Topping.

It wouldn't hurt us to pay more attention to the Norse "myths". What was written down in the early Norwegian Christian era were shallow and literal transcripts of the Old Norse stories. These lacked all depth of meaning, without even an understanding of the meaning of the names of people and places. Allegorical meanings were lost or discarded. A pre-Christian history or children's fable was acceptable, but a pre-Roman-Christian spiritual dimension was not.

About the importance of translating names and place-names in Old Norse myths in order to understand the coded messages of metaphysics, philosophy and spirituality. Example: The two first lines of stanza 3 in Völuspá, Poetic Edda, where AR VAR ALDA; THAR ER YMIR BYGDHI, should be translated as “In the Beginning was the Wave, when Sound was building”

http://freya.theladyofthelabyrinth.com/?page_id=76

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evE6aLg-_Q8

Myth and Parable - In this video I am discussing comparative mythology using examples from the ancient Indian epos Mahabharata, the myth of Krishna and the Gopis, as well as ancient Mystery cult and the myth of Isis and Osiris as understood by Mystery initiates in the Classical age. These examples to throw light on how Old Norse myths ought to be read -- as parables.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEaXJ-Uh6SI

Snorri (1179-1241) wrote his Prose Edda in an attempt to preserve the Norse art of poetry, realizing that people no longer understood old poems (bardic poems and edda poems) because they were forgetting the pagan myths and thus the meaning behind the art of metaphorical allusion. At the same time he cleverly preserved ancient myths in a way that was inoffensive to the Church .

[Mick Harper]

You certainly are one for hanging on like grim death to the wrong bone, Borrie.

I think you mean you don't know

No, I said I don't know.

Others of us have been up Roseberry Topping bjarg, and have also been in many of the megalithic enclosed spaces (burghs). We can tell the difference. There's no enclosed space on top of Roseberry Topping.

I didn't mention such a thing. The inference is that Roseberry Topping is itself a burgh.

It wouldn't hurt us to pay more attention to the Norse "myths". What was written down in the early Norwegian Christian era were shallow and literal transcripts of the Old Norse stories.

I ought to remind you that was precisely what we were doing, remember? viz

first attested in 1119 as Othenesberg, the name changed successively to Othensberg, Ohenseberg, Ounsberry and Ouesberry before finally settling on Roseberry. "

It was the place name theorists not the Norse who came up with the idea of it being a bjarg.

[Boreades]

Just added to the Mega-map of broches.

https://tme.carto.com/me

Odin's Hall Broch

... is one of the most southerly broch survivals, which are more typically associated with Northern Scotland. It is 4 miles north of the town of Duns. It stands on the northeast slope of Cockburn Law just above a fairly steep slope down to the Whiteadder Water.

The broch stands in the northwest corner an Iron Age hillfort which presumably pre-dates the broch. The hillfort consists of a double rampart and ditches, enclosing an oval area some 135 metres by 75 metres. The entrance was on the west side. A large circular structure (roundhouse) in the centre of the fort, close to the broch, may have been the most important building before the broch’s construction.

This one is unusual for being further south than normal, and for having a distinctly Norse name. But then the places with distinctly Norse names do tend to be in that part of Britain.

[Mick Harper]

You haven't said how it came by its name. And since we have Wednesday (and presumably therefore some affinity with Odin) and, as you say, mostly in the far north, what's to stop Scandi-Odins being an import from Britain?

[TisILeclerc]

Some confusion here I htink.

It's called Odin's broch but also Edin's broch for some reason. Can't make their minds up I suppose. Ettin gets a mention as well for some reason.

Edin’s Hall Broch (also Edinshall Broch; Odin’s Hall Broch) is a 2nd-century broch near Duns in the Borders of Scotland. It is one of very few brochs found in southern Scotland. It is roughly 28 metres in diameter.

In the late 18th century this site was called “Wooden’s Hall or Castle” (Woden the chief god from Anglo-Saxon mythology). Its later name change apparently recalls the legend of the three-headed giant The Red Ettin known in tales and ballads.

https://www.e-architect.co.uk/scotland/ ... -buildings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edin%27s_Hall_Broch

I wonder if 'Edin' is related to the burgh of 'Edin'?

[Lucius Cannon]

The Cailleach Beara is a hag and a beautiful woman. She appears as a crone who asks a hero to sleep with her, when he does, she then transforms into a beautiful woman. She is ever-renewing and passes through many lifetimes going from old age to youth to old age. During her many lives she had at least fifty foster children. This is the creation myth of the tribes around Kerry and its surroundings. They are her children and her foster children.

see also

Cailleach Bheur, Bera, Bera, Scota, Scota, Boi, Boi, Old Woman, Old Woman of Beara, Cailleach Bhearra, Cailleach Bhearra, Cailleach Bui, Cailleach Bui, Cailleach Mov, Cailleach Mov, Caillech Bherri, Caillech Bherri, Hag of Beara, Hag of Beara, Digdi, Digdi, Dirri, Old Woman (of Beara), Old Woman (of Beara), Old Woman of Dingle, Old Woman of Dingle, Manx Caillagh ny Groamagh, Manx Caillagh ny Groamagh, Scottish Muilearteach, Scottish Muilearteach, Scota, Scota, Muilearteach or Muilearteach.

Why do folks never link crones to chronos?

[Lucius Cannon]

Crones get a bad press as they are a representative of circular time?